The administration of lemmy.ml routinely abuses its rule 1 anti-bigotry policy to conduct political censorship, deleting documented facts regarding the ukraine invasion, holodomor, and xinjiang abuses under false pretexts of imperialist propaganda, misinformation, and nazism while leaving pro-Kremlin talking points untouched.

Verifiable public moderation logs prove this systemic shielding of state propaganda, down to moderators inverting standard geopolitical context, such as noting that fringe extremist units do not make an entire democratic nation fascist, to ban dissenters under the explicit excuse of being a Nazi.

https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=25800386 and https://lemmy.world/modlog/446?page=1&actionType=All&userId=20355358.

The Europe community moderator (https://lemmy.world/u/geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml), who focuses exclusively on criticizing the West and never Russia or China, banned me as a Nazi.

I decided to block the lemmy.ml instance entirely to avoid any further interaction.

I see that there are dozens of relevant posts; you can find the relevant report posts here

Log screenshots

  • slazer2au@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    124
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    1 day ago

    You must be new around here. This is old news and a reason a lot of places block ml

    • marcos@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      78
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      1 day ago

      It’s important to document their behavior anyway, because not al places block ml.

      • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 hours ago

        they have been doing that, maybe you dont visit thier posts often. hexbear, lemmygrad, and ml are all super tankies. others ones you may want to avoid is dbzero, or equivalent, startrek website comm, and some of blahj ones.

        • Handles@leminal.space
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          6 hours ago

          LOL, startrek.website? IIRC the whole hubbub about them was that they defederated from dbzer0 in the first place.

      • Pratai@piefed.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        15 hours ago

        They’ve always done this. “Rule 1” Is pretty much a .ml meme catch all for “you aren’t allowed to use facts here. Agree or be removed”

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        63
        arrow-down
        15
        ·
        1 day ago

        In large part that is what the word “tankie” means - denial of reality, instead substituting their own, which can only be done inside of a controlled echo chamber. Tankie is no way is synonymous with Communist.

        Think MAGA but on the left - it’s otherwise identical in terms of behaviors, merely different talking points.

        You may find this illustrative:

        img

          • Zarobi@aussie.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            20
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            8 hours ago

            Here let me help

                        Whatever 
                        the fuck
                     tankies are
                  -------● doing
                 /
                /            ● Far
                \           /Right
                 \         /
             ●----●Center●/
            Far
            Left™
            
            • SalmiakDragon@feddit.nu
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              5 minutes ago

              Thanks. I still have no idea what I’m looking at though. A left-right scale of some kind - is it just randomly drawn lines in the classic political compass?

            • yogurtwrong@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              2 hours ago

              Images barely working, ascii art, threaded structure, federation…

              close enough, welcome back usenet.

        • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          11 hours ago

          i first heard the word tankie on reddit, but usually it refers to tankie of thier location(city,county,etc) on lemmy its the “ultra-left”

      • Linda R@nord.pub
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        26
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        21 hours ago

        One of my first experiences in the Fediverse was mentioning the Uyghur genocide and having my comment promptly removed by the .ml admins. They’ve been doing this all the time.

      • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        1 day ago

        A lot of instances are curated, they’re the supreme mods after all. Some delay your posts until they can curate them, and some just remove them. It’s the way it be.

        • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          35
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          This isn’t said and understood enough. Instances on the Fediverse aren’t free-for-all, apolitical places without ideology. Some try to be (with varying success) but being active in the Fediverse and especially running an instance is in itself a fairly ideological and political act. So chances are instances reflect their owners’ ideology. And that is great because one has places to be if an instance doesn’t suit them, unlike corpo platdorms where one ideology drives most of them.

          • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            18
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            24 hours ago

            The only thing that bugs me about it is that the largest instances can control what most people see.

            • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              24 hours ago

              True. It’s definitely not a perfect, problem-solved thing. Merely an (significant?) improvement from the corporate status quo.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              14
              arrow-down
              10
              ·
              edit-2
              22 hours ago

              The great thing about lemmy’s design is that that’s not really true. I’m seeing this criticism of .ml despite being on .ml, because most of the posts that I see on lemmy are not on my home instance. At least half the time, I’m having discussions outside of my “home turf.”

              When you have a space that agrees on certain base assumptions, it becomes easier to have more in depth and thoughtful discussions, because you don’t have to focus on just proving or advocating for those basic assumptions over and over again, and watching every word you say to make sure it can’t be twisted or misinterpreted to paint you in a negative light. By contrast, sharing a space with ideological opponents often means people tend to dig in and just make snipes at each other, everybody’s just grandstanding and trying to get owns in, and the level of discussion is brought down to name-calling and accusations.

              At the same time, yes, echo chambers are a concern. If you’re never exposed to opposing viewpoints, obviously that’s not great either. We can see that happen on any number of subreddits. And if we were on different subreddits instead of on different instances, I wouldn’t be seeing this criticism, and you wouldn’t be seeing my response to it.

              The way the fediverse is designed inherently addresses both of those concerns. You can have a space where the discussions assume a shared ideology allowing for in depth discussions, but then you’re also federated with other spaces with different shared assumptions. The “tankie” creators of lemmy designed it this way on purpose, for that reason. To allow minority views (including but not limited to their own) to have spaces for discussion, without becoming isolated. To allow for higher level discussions with shared assumptions while also allowing for interactions between groups with different assumptions.

              This is why all this hand-wringing over .ml’s censorship is kind of silly. Because people on .ml are constantly seeing content from other instances with completely different policies, and that is not in spite of what the .ml’s admins want, they literally designed it that way on purpose.

              The only censorship that really matters on the fediverse is defederation.

              • OpenStars@discuss.online
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                14 hours ago

                This is why all this hand-wringing over .ml’s censorship is kind of silly. Because people on .ml are constantly seeing content from other instances with completely different policies

                Literally nobody has ever claimed that users on Lemmy.ml are not allowed to see content on other instances - this is not merely a strawman argument but an absolutely ridiculous one.

                Please don’t bother to reply to this if this is the level of content that your messages will contain.

                For anyone else that is curious, the complaint is about the lack of transparency in describing what content is vs. is not allowed - a community of people discussing FOSS comes nowhere close to mentioning that you are not allowed to come close to criticizing Russia, China, or North Korea - e.g. it is not allowed to state that Ukraine is not the aggressor and that rather Russia is, or to state that Uyghurs are being killed by China.

                I really really really really really really really really wish that Lemmy would implement a true instance block so that I did not have to spend time reading such comments as this. But for some reason that option is denied to me. Go figure.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  14 hours ago

                  It’s not really a strawman in that I never claimed anyone said it. It’s just that people talk about “censorship” and “echo chambers” and “they have to remove things to keep their users brainwashed” or whatever nonsense, ignoring the fact that the structure of the fediverse, as designed by the .ml admins, makes that more or less impossible.

                  For anyone else that is curious, the complaint is about the lack of transparency in describing what content is vs. is not allowed

                  OK, fair enough, they could afford to clarify the rules somewhat. But I don’t really consider that a huge deal. I’ve been banned from communities on .world for things that aren’t enumerated in the rules too. I don’t see why rules have to cover every possible thing.

                  • OpenStars@discuss.online
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    13 hours ago

                    Your argument that lemmy.ml cannot be an echo chamber due to it allowing other machines to store content that it disagrees with is noted. Btw nobody ever said that it was for that reason, so once again ridiculous.

                    Your second whataboutism is also noted (counterpoint: 2 things can both be true at the same time) - and expected. Once again I reiterate that I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really wish that I did not have to be subjected to this level of argumentation. But it seems that as long as I continue to use Lemmy, my only option is to block each account individually, over and over again, ad nauseum.

              • LuceVendemiaire@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                22 hours ago

                and those other instances can also moderate and delete comments and posts for all other instances unless archived or crossposted. If a lemmy.world mod deletes a comment in a lemmy.world post, I won’t be able to see it from over here in db0

                • OpenStars@discuss.online
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  14 hours ago

                  Tbf this is true for all instances - it is simply how the ActivityPub Protocol works. The home instance “owns” the content, so if e.g. a Lemmy.world user submits a post to a community on Lemmy.ml, then other LW users won’t be able to see it if it gets removed, but the same is true vice versa if a ML user submits a post to a community located on LW.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  arrow-down
                  11
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  21 hours ago

                  Because I disagree with the term. The admins are not “tankies,” they are Marxist-Leninists.

                  What makes someone a “tankie” is that they “defend” certain states. In practice, “defending” often includes just refuting misinformation, for example, if I refute that “everyone in North Korea gets the same haircut” then I’m “defending” it and therefore a “tankie.” It can also mean acknowledging accomplishments, saying any good thing about any socialist state, like, “Cuba had a very successful literacy program,” which is just an objective historical fact. “Tankie” is supposed to mean someone who blindly supports everything a socialist state has ever done, in practice, it means someone who supports anything a socialist state has ever done.

                  Before it was “tankie” it was “pinko,” and before that “red.” That kind of red scare bullshit has allowed blatant misinformation to run rampant, because even rational people avoid pushing back on it for fear of being labelled a “tankie.” As stories about how all communists eat babies or whatnot run rampant, it has in turn hurt the reputation of both leftists and liberals, because it literally doesn’t matter how hard you try to distance yourself from the far-left, you’ll still get associated with it. Joe Biden got called a communist for Christ’s sake. To put it another way:

                  Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being “smeared” as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.

                  The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less-privileged elements of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little difference whether their wealth and power is challenged by “communist subversives” or “loyal American liberals.” All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.

                  • Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds

                  That is why I put “tankie” in quotes.

                  • SupraMario@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    9
                    arrow-down
                    6
                    ·
                    16 hours ago

                    Lol the admins for .ml are %100 tankies, calling them Marxist-leninists is just a kinder term for “western children who excuse the authoritarian actions of dictators they agree with”. Trying to change history because it doesn’t put russia or china in a good light or trying to call the shit they do as “western propaganda” is just being a tankie.

                    End of the day, you tankies want to be the ones sending others to the gulags and think you’d be in power in your coming revolution. To bad you’re a microscopic portion of the population that agrees with you and your authoritarian logic.

                    You’re just the “left” wing version of maga, ignorant and will excuse your dear leaders of any wrong doing while sticking your fingers in your ears shouting fake news.

          • eurodyne@piefed.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            23 hours ago

            This. Just imagine if all of Lemmy was like one instance or another. The whole point of the fediverse is that there can be multiple instances, and you can just gravitate towards the ones that align with your own views.

            • OpenStars@discuss.online
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              14 hours ago

              Except it would be nice if the instances were honest about their rules, or at least that they would be described somewhere written down, rather than people having to continually find out the hard way (such as OP).