Thanks to Meter for sponsoring this video! Go to http://meter.com/ltt to book a demo now!It is time to Try Linux ONE MORE TIME. Linus, Luke, and Elijah all s...
Most of them seemed to be giving it a fair go but Linus himself seemed to be treating it more like a Cheap Car Challenge from Top Gear. He was cracking (bad) jokes about “just Linux things” before he’d even started and he gave up pretty much straight away. The problems he was having with Discord seemed more like Discord issues than Linux issues.
I game on Linux without issue. Literally 95% of games just work without issue. Deathloop never ran well and Routine (a UE game) for some reason kept want to install and uninstall a package each time I ran it (but it played fine). I don’t think I’ve found another game that doesn’t play and I recently bought ARC Raiders.
If we are thinking in terms of roles in a production of a sketch, Linus is the one that accepts the role to emphasize and emote about the problems. Picking a distro with known quirks (being a beta in this case) is a signature setup for that role. Without the drama, it would be a pretty boring episode for the LTT demographic.
That being said, anyone who is ingrained into how Windows operates and has quirks in their workflows (as in - tuned their workflow to work relying on some edge cases), a month is too short a time to transition and embrace that necessary change.
I think if he had somebody better to onboard him, he’d have a better experience.
In classic manchild fashion, you people always blame the user instead of the technology. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that switching to Linux is not going to be without issues for anyone, let alone the average computer user.
Instead of taking the opportunity to be a loser by gatekeeping, we should be saying “Yeah, the Linux ecosystem still has a long way to go. What makes it better is that it’s free software. You now get to be a part of the community making it better and get to see for yourself where we are.”
None of you will say that though because you’re too stuck in your ways. It makes me sick, but I’m glad I’m not one of you.
I use linux exclusively on desktop, it’s got a lot of problems, many seem unique to the user, I hate that the way to discuss the problems for a lot of people is pretending they don’t exist, makes first contact more problematic for newcomers. Even before touching linux I’ve been hating that attitude with a passion from windows users, at least it’s not a problem exclusive to linux.
Between this, his alleged mistreatment of employees, his problematic takes on unions and worker power, his incorrect reporting proven by other tech reporters, and all the staff I actually enjoyed watching leaving and starting their own channels…I dunno why anyone gives this fucking ass clown the time of day anymore.
Stay on Windows then, you corporate fuckboy! Enjoy XBox cloud gaming and never owning anything again.
I was watching an lmg clips video about it last night, and personally found it very unreasonable how he said a game that supposedly worked without tinkering, actually needed tinkering because he had to use proton experimental and add a simple launch command. Maybe i’m an out of touch linux user but… what? Is he really saying it’s that difficult to select proton experimental from a gui dropdown menu, and then copy paste a simple command? There are probably games out there on native windows that require more tinkering than that. If you literally want no tinkering at all, you’re probably better of with a console, which is ironic considering linus is mainly a pc gamer.
it’s that difficult to select proton experimental from a gui dropdown menu, and then copy paste a simple command
you still need to find the command, to know that you need to use proton experimental, to not be scared away by the name or the idea of going into options, to know how to open a context menu(something that so many people i have seen do not know), to know how to copy and paste something
these are not difficult things to do, but they require effort and to learn how to do; the average person(that i have encountered) does not want to spend the time and energy to do those things. They want to just double click the game and for it to open
i dont think assuming “without tinkering” means without changing the default settings is that unreasonable
Honestly, I think he’s right on that one. No tinkering means no tinkering, selecting a proton version to force to use the windows version of the game and passing command arguments is tinkering. That is the difference between gold and platinum in protondb, gold means it works with tinkering while platinum means works oob. L4D2 is marked as Gold, so protondb agrees that some tinkering is required, his complaint that a Valve game in a platform Valve is pushing should work without tinkering is perfectly valid.
Oh yeah, i did agree with him that the review was silly by stating two opposites like that, but i did feel like he made it sound like the tinkering he ended up having to do was very involved, eventhough it just takes a few seconds, especially when a review like that has already figured it out for you.
He’s a moron but yeah copying and pasting a command is beyond normies. They would want to get the command from LLMs for one thing, which would almost guarantee it wouldn’t work.
Linus is not at all a moron. The trouble with him is that he plays the role of a boulevard journalist. So he constructs bs narratives to have something to talk about, even when it makes absolutely no sense to create these little plot points.
It seems to have gotten to a point where he can not switch his style off. Seems to have gotten this way since he started LMG.
It’s the difference between entertainment and information. Gamer’s Nexus is less entertaining when they recite statistics number by number, and so they have less viewers, because people prefer poor information but with an entertaining presentation, rather than the opposite.
Kinda like Top Gear used to be, they had some valid information but they could bend it if it meant the show would be more entertaining.
The real problem with these videos is that Linus decides to try and emulate the average user, but then refuses to do even the smallest amount of troubleshooting “because the average user wouldn’t do it”. So it leads to a lot of moments where something doesn’t work out of the box, there’s a trivially simple solution that comes up as the first Google search result (if you ignore Gemini’s output), but he doesn’t bother and just throws his hands up (like the average user would, I guess).
It just gets frustrating, because their Linux videos end up being entertainment first, and educational… fifth, maybe?
You might be right, I’m not even sure what his actual intelligence level is and I didn’t express myself well. I just don’t like the fuck. He was at his most charming when he did the video with Actual Linus™ and he still kind of got on my nerves. And unlike some others, I do not think his criticism of Linux is constructive. And unlike others, I do not find the gamer Nexus expose on him to be a dismissable hit piece, because to me it showed a shady corrupt business relationship with hardware companies and sloppy benchmarking. Not to mention the sexual harassment accusations, which I find credible.
A useful video would be a bunch of people beating on stuff (off-screen or in an extended cut) to figure out what’s actually easy and reliable for beginners, then presenting that information. It would get approximately 237 views, which is roughly a million fewer than the linked video has at this time.
What succeeds on Youtube is entertainment first and information a distant second. A video where everyone sat down in a quiet environment with no pressure, installed a reasonable Linux distribution, and had a smooth experience wouldn’t be very entertaining.
I have not yet watched the video, but it also depends on how easy it is to find the needed settings and how authorative they are. Previously I was on Ubuntu trying to get Nine Sols working with a usable framerate. ProtonDB hat some comments about the needed settings, each comment saying something different, non of them giving positive results. And for using something like gamemode I first had to install it, which is just another step not provided by anything other than comments.
When I installed Bazzite on the same PC (which was torture in itself because I didn’t want to give it a full disk alone), everything worked out of the box for all my games. That tells me, that Ubuntu had no focus on making the experience for gaming better. Similar to Fedora 43 removing support for old Nvidia cards, while Bazzite still supports them. (I still debate myself on switching again from fedora because of all the hassle)
Part of the problem is that people have gotten lazy. I’d say the biggest advent of people losing touch with the actually tech is windows 7. It had everything at your fingertips. No need to look for drivers, little need for compatibility changes or added set up requirements. Couple that with nvidia automatically adjusting “best settings” for your rig on a per-game basis and you’ve got what we have now. People don’t want to learn and they’ve forgotten how we got here. Unfortunately, click and run seems to be the consumer de facto now and it isn’t going to go away.
He’s said a couple of times that he’s trying to view it through the lens of a casual, non-technical user, and the fact that similar problems also exist on Windows doesn’t stop them from being problems.
True, but I wish Linus had tried switching distros, or at least not using a distro he’s already had issues with in the past. A lot of his problems are stemming from using an Ubuntu-based distro and COSMIC being a brand new DE that still has a bug of bugs to quash.
Hopefully in the next couple of weeks they do a collab with Wendel to go over what were the causes of their problems and final recommendations. Sure, the listicles for Linux distros are useless, but having a conclusion from trusted voices informed by people with a lot of experience (aka Luke and Wendel) would do a lot of good by cutting through the bullshit.
Supposedly Linus switched to Kubuntu, but we’ll have to wait for part 2 to see how that turned out. But from the WAN show I don’t think it went well.
My biggest issue is that there is zero information of what everyone is actually running.
“I’m running Kubuntu”, cool, what version? LTS or STS? What kernel? What version of Mesa drivers? How did you even install the OS? Ext4? Manual partitioning? Are you using swap? Is steam installed via flatpak, snap, or the deb?
But nope it’s “lol I installed pop again, shits still broken, Linux sucks! I’m cursed!”
Yeah, agree that choosing the same distro again was kind of silly, but understand wanting to give it a second try. I was also disappointed by the decision though.
Was glad to see Luke choose CachyOS. I slapped it on a small gaming machine a couple of months ago and have been quite happy with it.
It’s the Pro Wrestling of tech. It’s Tech Entertainment. The focus is drama instead of technical accuracy or knowledge sharing. He “lost the match” because he never intended to win.
Been playing games and using Discord on Bazzite and haven’t had an issue with anything. I haven’t even needed to do any tweaks to proton yet for a game to run fine.
Most of them seemed to be giving it a fair go but Linus himself seemed to be treating it more like a Cheap Car Challenge from Top Gear. He was cracking (bad) jokes about “just Linux things” before he’d even started and he gave up pretty much straight away. The problems he was having with Discord seemed more like Discord issues than Linux issues.
I game on Linux without issue. Literally 95% of games just work without issue. Deathloop never ran well and Routine (a UE game) for some reason kept want to install and uninstall a package each time I ran it (but it played fine). I don’t think I’ve found another game that doesn’t play and I recently bought ARC Raiders.
If we are thinking in terms of roles in a production of a sketch, Linus is the one that accepts the role to emphasize and emote about the problems. Picking a distro with known quirks (being a beta in this case) is a signature setup for that role. Without the drama, it would be a pretty boring episode for the LTT demographic.
That being said, anyone who is ingrained into how Windows operates and has quirks in their workflows (as in - tuned their workflow to work relying on some edge cases), a month is too short a time to transition and embrace that necessary change.
I think if he had somebody better to onboard him, he’d have a better experience.
In classic manchild fashion, you people always blame the user instead of the technology. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that switching to Linux is not going to be without issues for anyone, let alone the average computer user.
Instead of taking the opportunity to be a loser by gatekeeping, we should be saying “Yeah, the Linux ecosystem still has a long way to go. What makes it better is that it’s free software. You now get to be a part of the community making it better and get to see for yourself where we are.”
None of you will say that though because you’re too stuck in your ways. It makes me sick, but I’m glad I’m not one of you.
I use linux exclusively on desktop, it’s got a lot of problems, many seem unique to the user, I hate that the way to discuss the problems for a lot of people is pretending they don’t exist, makes first contact more problematic for newcomers. Even before touching linux I’ve been hating that attitude with a passion from windows users, at least it’s not a problem exclusive to linux.
Between this, his alleged mistreatment of employees, his problematic takes on unions and worker power, his incorrect reporting proven by other tech reporters, and all the staff I actually enjoyed watching leaving and starting their own channels…I dunno why anyone gives this fucking ass clown the time of day anymore.
Stay on Windows then, you corporate fuckboy! Enjoy XBox cloud gaming and never owning anything again.
I was watching an lmg clips video about it last night, and personally found it very unreasonable how he said a game that supposedly worked without tinkering, actually needed tinkering because he had to use proton experimental and add a simple launch command. Maybe i’m an out of touch linux user but… what? Is he really saying it’s that difficult to select proton experimental from a gui dropdown menu, and then copy paste a simple command? There are probably games out there on native windows that require more tinkering than that. If you literally want no tinkering at all, you’re probably better of with a console, which is ironic considering linus is mainly a pc gamer.
you still need to find the command, to know that you need to use proton experimental, to not be scared away by the name or the idea of going into options, to know how to open a context menu(something that so many people i have seen do not know), to know how to copy and paste something
these are not difficult things to do, but they require effort and to learn how to do; the average person(that i have encountered) does not want to spend the time and energy to do those things. They want to just double click the game and for it to open
i dont think assuming “without tinkering” means without changing the default settings is that unreasonable
Honestly, I think he’s right on that one. No tinkering means no tinkering, selecting a proton version to force to use the windows version of the game and passing command arguments is tinkering. That is the difference between gold and platinum in protondb, gold means it works with tinkering while platinum means works oob. L4D2 is marked as Gold, so protondb agrees that some tinkering is required, his complaint that a Valve game in a platform Valve is pushing should work without tinkering is perfectly valid.
I think it’s fair to call out reviews that say:
“This works out of the box, and requires no tinkering at all. Anyways, here’s what you’ll need to do to get it to work.”
Having to tinker with settings and commands is literally not what “requires no tinkering” means.
Oh yeah, i did agree with him that the review was silly by stating two opposites like that, but i did feel like he made it sound like the tinkering he ended up having to do was very involved, eventhough it just takes a few seconds, especially when a review like that has already figured it out for you.
He’s a moron but yeah copying and pasting a command is beyond normies. They would want to get the command from LLMs for one thing, which would almost guarantee it wouldn’t work.
Linus is not at all a moron. The trouble with him is that he plays the role of a boulevard journalist. So he constructs bs narratives to have something to talk about, even when it makes absolutely no sense to create these little plot points.
It seems to have gotten to a point where he can not switch his style off. Seems to have gotten this way since he started LMG.
It’s the difference between entertainment and information. Gamer’s Nexus is less entertaining when they recite statistics number by number, and so they have less viewers, because people prefer poor information but with an entertaining presentation, rather than the opposite.
Kinda like Top Gear used to be, they had some valid information but they could bend it if it meant the show would be more entertaining.
The real problem with these videos is that Linus decides to try and emulate the average user, but then refuses to do even the smallest amount of troubleshooting “because the average user wouldn’t do it”. So it leads to a lot of moments where something doesn’t work out of the box, there’s a trivially simple solution that comes up as the first Google search result (if you ignore Gemini’s output), but he doesn’t bother and just throws his hands up (like the average user would, I guess).
It just gets frustrating, because their Linux videos end up being entertainment first, and educational… fifth, maybe?
Have you met the average user? 😀
They click on ads that look like windows dialogs.
true and people forget how troubleshooting makes them smarter
Well said.
You might be right, I’m not even sure what his actual intelligence level is and I didn’t express myself well. I just don’t like the fuck. He was at his most charming when he did the video with Actual Linus™ and he still kind of got on my nerves. And unlike some others, I do not think his criticism of Linux is constructive. And unlike others, I do not find the gamer Nexus expose on him to be a dismissable hit piece, because to me it showed a shady corrupt business relationship with hardware companies and sloppy benchmarking. Not to mention the sexual harassment accusations, which I find credible.
A useful video would be a bunch of people beating on stuff (off-screen or in an extended cut) to figure out what’s actually easy and reliable for beginners, then presenting that information. It would get approximately 237 views, which is roughly a million fewer than the linked video has at this time.
What succeeds on Youtube is entertainment first and information a distant second. A video where everyone sat down in a quiet environment with no pressure, installed a reasonable Linux distribution, and had a smooth experience wouldn’t be very entertaining.
I have not yet watched the video, but it also depends on how easy it is to find the needed settings and how authorative they are. Previously I was on Ubuntu trying to get Nine Sols working with a usable framerate. ProtonDB hat some comments about the needed settings, each comment saying something different, non of them giving positive results. And for using something like gamemode I first had to install it, which is just another step not provided by anything other than comments.
When I installed Bazzite on the same PC (which was torture in itself because I didn’t want to give it a full disk alone), everything worked out of the box for all my games. That tells me, that Ubuntu had no focus on making the experience for gaming better. Similar to Fedora 43 removing support for old Nvidia cards, while Bazzite still supports them. (I still debate myself on switching again from fedora because of all the hassle)
Part of the problem is that people have gotten lazy. I’d say the biggest advent of people losing touch with the actually tech is windows 7. It had everything at your fingertips. No need to look for drivers, little need for compatibility changes or added set up requirements. Couple that with nvidia automatically adjusting “best settings” for your rig on a per-game basis and you’ve got what we have now. People don’t want to learn and they’ve forgotten how we got here. Unfortunately, click and run seems to be the consumer de facto now and it isn’t going to go away.
He’s said a couple of times that he’s trying to view it through the lens of a casual, non-technical user, and the fact that similar problems also exist on Windows doesn’t stop them from being problems.
True, but I wish Linus had tried switching distros, or at least not using a distro he’s already had issues with in the past. A lot of his problems are stemming from using an Ubuntu-based distro and COSMIC being a brand new DE that still has a bug of bugs to quash.
Hopefully in the next couple of weeks they do a collab with Wendel to go over what were the causes of their problems and final recommendations. Sure, the listicles for Linux distros are useless, but having a conclusion from trusted voices informed by people with a lot of experience (aka Luke and Wendel) would do a lot of good by cutting through the bullshit.
Supposedly Linus switched to Kubuntu, but we’ll have to wait for part 2 to see how that turned out. But from the WAN show I don’t think it went well.
My biggest issue is that there is zero information of what everyone is actually running.
“I’m running Kubuntu”, cool, what version? LTS or STS? What kernel? What version of Mesa drivers? How did you even install the OS? Ext4? Manual partitioning? Are you using swap? Is steam installed via flatpak, snap, or the deb?
But nope it’s “lol I installed pop again, shits still broken, Linux sucks! I’m cursed!”
Yeah, agree that choosing the same distro again was kind of silly, but understand wanting to give it a second try. I was also disappointed by the decision though.
Was glad to see Luke choose CachyOS. I slapped it on a small gaming machine a couple of months ago and have been quite happy with it.
Yea I agree. I don’t like how Linus is doing this challenge at all. He is not being fair.
Deathloop doesn’t run well on Windows either.
Totally agree! We canx’t have serious mass if it keeps getting portrayed as some kind of cheap toy.
On the other side of all this, tho, we do have Pewdipie seriously having Linux as his daily driver.
PewDiePie has probably brought more people to Linux single-handedly than LTT ever did.
LTT is not sincere.
It’s the Pro Wrestling of tech. It’s Tech Entertainment. The focus is drama instead of technical accuracy or knowledge sharing. He “lost the match” because he never intended to win.
I also had some issues with hyprland and steam. That’s why i changed back to KDE. Luke made a great choice to leave hyprland for a later day.
Been playing games and using Discord on Bazzite and haven’t had an issue with anything. I haven’t even needed to do any tweaks to proton yet for a game to run fine.