I understand and agree with that, but that’s exactly my point, that control is a means to an end, but control needs to be sustained and perfected over time, and it is also necessary when a handful of psychotic apes are making their profits off of other 8.2 billion psychotic apes.
Yes, the ultimate goal is money. Yes, control is a means to an end. But you also have to take into consideration the way we’ve structured things to work so far, how we’ve built society, basically. It’s layers upon layers of influence and control, even down to basic human interactions most of the time. I’m not saying non-transactional interactions are impossible, but in a transactional system, transactional interactions are favoured. And, yes, the system itself is transactional because it is focused and built around the central and supreme value (in its conception, not objectively, to note) - money.
We have built a system of control centered around money, is my point. Because that was the most effective way to ensure stability of profit. And it is much easier and much stabler to ensure the (upward) flow of money if one controls/influences/manipulates those who actually generate the money.
I don’t disagree, my problem was with people suggesting control was the end, not profit. Control is a tool purely to help gain more profit, it isn’t the goal.
As a side-note, I do think it’s worth understanding that there are socialist countries where control is flipped, political power is dominated by the working class against capitalists. We know socialism works, we know capitalism is dying.
Oh, nonono! Control is just the most effective and mass-deployed tool, not the end! Completely agree with that aspect!
And agreed as well in that the pyramid of control should be flipped, with the people who actually generate value (i.e. the workers) at the top! It would make sense not only from an equity standpoint, but in terms of expertise as well! I find practical experience with a process is an absolute must for anyone who is tasked with managing said process, if we desire efficient (and actually useful…) management!
The workers should be dictating how things work, because they’re the ones actually working the things. That sounds a lot more confusing than it is in my head=))
Glad we could agree! Really, one of the bright sides of capitalism’s later stages is that it already prepares the way for socialism. Capitalism cannot help but centralize, developing the tools and processes needed for production at huge scales, but this same development also makes it much easier to plan production and move beyond production for profit. As capital concentrates in fewer and fewer hands, the working class grows, and is already trained to run production ourselves. The longer this goes on, the more we outnumber capitalists.
Countries like the PRC, Cuba, etc have already shown that socialism works very well for satisfying the needs of people, and presents a way out. As imperialism is falling with the US Empire, so is the biggest obstacle to socialism globally. There’s good reason to be hopeful for the future, it will just take organizing and serious dedication to building a better world.
I understand and agree with that, but that’s exactly my point, that control is a means to an end, but control needs to be sustained and perfected over time, and it is also necessary when a handful of psychotic apes are making their profits off of other 8.2 billion psychotic apes.
Yes, the ultimate goal is money. Yes, control is a means to an end. But you also have to take into consideration the way we’ve structured things to work so far, how we’ve built society, basically. It’s layers upon layers of influence and control, even down to basic human interactions most of the time. I’m not saying non-transactional interactions are impossible, but in a transactional system, transactional interactions are favoured. And, yes, the system itself is transactional because it is focused and built around the central and supreme value (in its conception, not objectively, to note) - money.
We have built a system of control centered around money, is my point. Because that was the most effective way to ensure stability of profit. And it is much easier and much stabler to ensure the (upward) flow of money if one controls/influences/manipulates those who actually generate the money.
I don’t disagree, my problem was with people suggesting control was the end, not profit. Control is a tool purely to help gain more profit, it isn’t the goal.
As a side-note, I do think it’s worth understanding that there are socialist countries where control is flipped, political power is dominated by the working class against capitalists. We know socialism works, we know capitalism is dying.
Oh, nonono! Control is just the most effective and mass-deployed tool, not the end! Completely agree with that aspect!
And agreed as well in that the pyramid of control should be flipped, with the people who actually generate value (i.e. the workers) at the top! It would make sense not only from an equity standpoint, but in terms of expertise as well! I find practical experience with a process is an absolute must for anyone who is tasked with managing said process, if we desire efficient (and actually useful…) management!
The workers should be dictating how things work, because they’re the ones actually working the things. That sounds a lot more confusing than it is in my head=))
Glad we could agree! Really, one of the bright sides of capitalism’s later stages is that it already prepares the way for socialism. Capitalism cannot help but centralize, developing the tools and processes needed for production at huge scales, but this same development also makes it much easier to plan production and move beyond production for profit. As capital concentrates in fewer and fewer hands, the working class grows, and is already trained to run production ourselves. The longer this goes on, the more we outnumber capitalists.
Countries like the PRC, Cuba, etc have already shown that socialism works very well for satisfying the needs of people, and presents a way out. As imperialism is falling with the US Empire, so is the biggest obstacle to socialism globally. There’s good reason to be hopeful for the future, it will just take organizing and serious dedication to building a better world.