As opposed to the Lemmy solution, “Don’t vote! That’ll do something!”
That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.
I’ve also talked with people who literally are against voting so your statement does not speak for everyone.
What “more immediate political concerns” are not fought better on the ground?
People laughed, saying a vote for Kamala was pointless, and a vote for genocide, but everyone has suffered under this atrocity of an administration. I don’t know that Kamala would have called Marxists terrorists.
The DNC are complicit in the present state repression against left-wing groups, and the genocide in Palestine has continued.
lol what has voting achieved??
Local election voting is much more important. You can bring change to your local community with effort. Federal not so much.
Gotten people who can do better into positions of power? Kept people who can do harm out? Gotten rid of the feudal system where you only have power of you’re genetically born into it?
If voting didn’t matter, why would people fight and die for it? If voting didn’t matter, why do conservatives want you to not vote? If voting didn’t matter, why bother pretending and gave elections?
Why should you give up your agency over your government?
Or are you cool with the people who didn’t vote and kinda let Trump take over?
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest, ever, that you only need to vote to solve problems.
I’m jealous of you then
My point was to use all tools at your disposal. Revolutions can be waged on several fronts. I’ve always hated politics as do most people I know. But 50% voter turnout is partially to blame why it sucks so bad. We have a shitty government and we are to blame. Oh well, I tried nothing and it didn’t work…
The 50% voter turnout is because of lack of faith in the ability for voting to change anything. Push these people to organize.
If everyone thinks like that, then nothing can be done. The power is when many people act together. Giving up because you feel insignificant is what keeps oligarchs in power. They want you to feel small. One vote may seem small, but if everyone votes, then we can make a difference.
We agree that the powers of the working classes are in our numbers. Where we disagree is which direction that should be pointed in. You cannot change the system from within it to something that goes fundamentally against the base. Only revolution can do so, so we must smash and replace the state with a socialist state.
America is the only society I know of that boasts of open elections but has no collective curiosity about who counts the votes or how it’s done.
I’m not saying fair elections would help; but I still get triggered easily by the subject.
I would like to think future historians will be as unkind to the vote pushers, as they will be to the fascists
They should have Iranian election auditors
Not just USA, but all countries with “democracy”. Every candidates to vote came from same oligarch groups.
Democracy within socialism is good and works for the people, but democracy within capitalism is a sham.
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Voting for genocide is not okay how hard is it to comprehend to you people?
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What the fuck are you trying to say? Genocide is being treated as a bipartisan issue in the name of voting democrats. Who gets the cookie? is it crackers for the cracKKKers? You’re vile that you completely wrote off the Palestinians if it means you get that cookie. Disgusting.
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both sides don’t give a shit about some mostly homeless people on the other side of the world.
LMFAO what a mask off. Talk about dehumanizing the pain and misery your country inflicts on the rest of the world as “some mostly homeless people”
Have you considered following your leader?
Edit: I just looked at your modlog and wow. This does explain why the Hitler particles detector was beeping hot when pointed at your posts.
(“Not giving a shit about them” when referring to Palestinians and the genocide they are going through)
Least selfish shitlib
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/> Human rights
- Every regime has deported more people than the previous regime
- All Kamala could say about trans people was that “they should follow the law”
- Every regime has increased police funding and expanded the carceral state.
- Roe v Wade was overturned under Joe Biden, who did fuck all to stop it
- Roe v Wade could have been enshrined, or whatever the fuck the word is, under Obama
- Obama was the one who expanded ICEs budget and purview
- Joe Biden was a fervent supporter of Israel
- Joe Biden sicced cops on peaceful protesters
- Joe Biden had people disappeared in black vans during the riots in 2020
What human rights?
Your argument seems to be “well they’re not throwing me in the camps” but seems like they’re well on their way to doing exactly that and you’re just strengthening them.
one side is a shit sandwich with human rights
Your daily reminder that western shitlibs don’t consider Palestinians human
That’s a lot of words for “first they came for the Palestinians, and I threw their asses under the bus because they’re not me.”
Are you even serious?
are you serious? 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler? Except you only care about domestic issues and don’t give one fuck about people outside your country. You don’t even consider them human when you talk like this.
Fucking disgusting. How about overthrowing your fucking genocidal governments?
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Both sides are genocide everywhere, you just dont notice or care when its your team doing it.
You should at least try to pretend that you consider Palestinians human
Why is this hard?
Why is this hard for you?
but one side is genocide both at home and abroad
You people are fucking pathetic btw. Palestine is going through daily bombings, dehumanization, torture and mass killings. All as part of your country’s push for genocide along with “Israel”. And they are still struggling and fighting and resisting.
And you experience ONE BILLIONTH of the pain and you decide turning genocide into a bipartisan issue is the way to go!
Selfish and monstrous.
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This shit would also be under the colour blue. Kamala Harris was mocking Trump for not deporting enough lmfao
The United States has a uniparty; all voting does is change the decal on the genocide machine. Vote if you want, I don’t really care, but don’t act like it does anything of substance.
Don’t only vote. But fucking vote.
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Most states have cheating in the primaries, both parties: unless you are lucky to live in a state that uses a voting system which prevents that.
What is the purpose of participating in a primary unless the votes are transparently counted and recounted by humans who are witnessed by representatives of the candidates?
If it is to raise awareness of the cheating, then some participation maybe good? Like, if the candidate or party/org is allowed to point at the the problematic voting system and propose changes etc as part of campaign promotion.
I would be totally behind raising awareness of proper vote counting with paper ballots; except that is what I did for years in my state, at first inside the Democratic Party ; then later when that had no traction, outside of it.
There is zero demand or push for better vote counting that I saw in the progressive wings of the Democratic Party. And equally few cares given by people in the republican side.
I spoke to activists in minority communities and there is zero momentum there, and no appetite to take that on.
In fact, it was such a sad experience for me, that it’s what inspired me to become a communist.
I’ve experienced trying to raise awareness and it only raised my awareness, not others.
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Joe Biden was pretty big on suppressing MeToo. And I dont know if you recall but the democrats are also on the Epstein list.
shut the fuck up and hold your nose and vote for the candidate that’s not pedohitler
They’re all pedohitlers. You people only care about Trump because he is mean to the domestic population and their vassal states.
Literally they are all on team genocide.
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Imperialism is bipartisan.
This did not start with fucking Trump holy fuck are you people insane. Venezuela has been under siege long before Trump stepped foot into office in his first term.
those Iranian schoolgirls
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/8/kamala-harris-says-iran-is-greatest-adversary-of-us
Amerikkkans were always doing this. History did not start with Trump. You are disgusting.
USAID cuts
A tool of imperialism got cut, oh no! No more forced austerity and regime changes hopefully!
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You’d have to be pretty dumb to think not voting is the right move.
Like, even Trump voters are legitimately smarter than that. “Not voted” people are the very bottom of the scale.
The point isn’t that withholding votes will bring about a better world, the point is that voting within capitalism cannot bring about socialism, and that socialism is necessary. It’s not “voting is harm,” nor is it “withholding votes does good,” it’s “voting is ineffective.”
The unstated point of the meme is that we must seek means of change outside of the system put in place to prevent change. Educating, agitating, and organizing is the way forward. We can only get socialism through revolution, otherwise we will be trapped in the same cycle of decay.
Liberals when you disrespect their cute little religious superstition: “You are mentally defective for refusing to vote for Holocaust 2, I’m the opposite of a fascist btw.”
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There’s no “suddenly,” because nothing has changed. We’ve been here the whole time saying the same things.
And I seldom see people say to not vote. Mostly they say that voting does little to nothing, and that we can’t vote our way to socialism.
Blueanon shitlibs assume that the world only exists for the brief time they come out of their torper every election
Leftists have not meaningfully increased revolutionary rhetoric based on the Statesian electoral cycle. You may tune out more whenever elections aren’t around the corner, but revolutionary socialists have consistently pushed people to organize precisely because it doesn’t depend on the electoral cycle to work.
Liberals when you point out the demonic human cost of their sociopath politics: “I will now imply or outright state that you are an agent of a foreign conspiracy to undermine The Nation, or perhaps a literal unthinking machine. I’m the opposite of a fascist btw.”
“Funny how there’s suddenly all these guys wearing orange vests in the woods, gee could it be hunting season?” yeah dude, it’s almost like whatever is up in the zeitgeist gets discussed more often. Next you’ll notice how when you take an action, there is a reaction.
Also, people are pretty vocal about not voting for dems most of the time. You only notice every two years when mainstream media primes your brain to care about politics.
I know it can be incredibly frustrating. Only 50-ish to 60-ish percent turnout out most elections which is sad (https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_elections). You can also vote with your money. Be conscious about what you spend your money on or just spend less. Vote with your data (restrict access to it). Be anonymous. Delete online accounts or use fake information as much as possible. Don’t feed the machine. Vote with your actions. Protest and show support for what you believe in. Vote with your feelings. Don’t go for the rage bait and trolls. Block all that shit. Don’t let it drag you down. Free your mind. Vote with your morals. Help those in need. Be kind. And above all just survive. You can’t make a difference if you are dead.
You can theoretically vote with your money. But you would need billions of dollars to vote. That’s the only way you can vote in a way that counts in capitalism.
Not voting is dumb. Might as well drown if you don’t.
Voting doesn’t get meaningful change, because it’s designed not to be able to. That doesn’t mean our hands our tied, we can roll up our sleeves and get organized. Collective power is the working class’s strongest tool, and it’s magnified when we all work in the same direction. Revolution is possible and necessary.
I would say voting for those working against your interests is even dumber
They banned you from posting :/
ⓘ Remember to enable JPEG-XL support in your browser, even on your phone!
in other words: the only allowed political action to be committed under capitalism is voting. we have to pretend we are challenging the status quo without doing anything at all right?
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Voting is the first and easiest step, right?
In scenarios where it does not seem to save you from drowning, What is to be done?
Yeah exactly. Voting is 20 minutes out of one day once a year if you’re super active. It doesn’t hinder any other efforts and it doesn’t diminish all the other work you can and should be doing the other 364 days 23 hours and 40 minutes. Maybe you can spend that 40 minutes learning about the candidates to have a more informed vote. It’s just a stinky thing you do to try and put the lesser of two evils in.
It also wouldn’t take much time for me to pray once or twice a day, but what’s it supposed to actually accomplish?
It doesn’t hinder any other efforts
Actually, further entrenching a right-wing genocidal party of geriatric oligarchs does hinder other efforts. Further normalising and legitimising the ever-expanding fascist police-state does hinder other efforts.
It’s just a stinky thing you do to try and put the lesser of two evils in.
Or, following your logic, it would be more useful to do something like vote third party.
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Voting for genocidal bigots is dumber
I feel like if there was any sort of uprising, the far right vastly out numbers the far left. What comes out may not be what we want.
Then you haven’t been organizing.
No one is advocating for an uprising.
That’s why it’s important to educate, agitate, and organize. Far more people are open to socialism and communism than you may think.
Okay cool let’s just give up and let them kill us all then
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Democrats aren’t the left
My own dem governor is throwing people like me under the bus, the entire democratic party is adopting genocidal rhetoric and policies to embrace a non existent center. Please sincerely fuck off with this garbage blaming the left. No amount of voting for people that hate me is going to improve my conditions or stop the fascists from wanting to exterminate me. Do not fucking talk down to me.
Also I am not and never will be “a dem that didn’t vote” I am a communist and I am painfully aware of the fact there is no way to stop fascism just by voting for those who openly state their desire to preserve the capitalist system that gave rise to and is giving rise to and always will give rise to fascism and Nazism.
Alraight, this is pissing me off. Why in the fuck should I vote dem if they embrace the genocide against me and my people as soon as they have any damn pressure? They have this coming election in the bag, why are they trying to be “culturally normal”? Ill tell you why, they are not our friends, voting for them only makes you feel good because your vote is colored blue. You are a part of the problem because to you this is just a game, but to me, I aint playing. This is life and death for people like me. FU lib.
Blaming millions of working class people in the democratic base over the vastly smaller amount of policymakers in the DNC leadership, who chose to run to the right on almost every issue in an attempt to gain the votes of the mythical ‘moderate conservatives’ is ridiculous imo.
Including choosing to support a genocide unpopular with the public as a whole(Poll from March 27, 2024: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx and the numbers were even higher when you selected for people more inclined to vote for the democrats) which would obviously suppress voter turnout among the left-leaning base who couldn’t swollow their morality to vote for a party directly arming genocidaires.The DNC being beholden to their Megadonors and PACs over the working class base, thus running on a triangulated center-right pro-genocide platform instead of on policy that would materially benefit the base and aligns with their values at the expense of the Megadonors profits Is how we actually got here
You can’t browbeat people working 40+ hours a week living paycheck to paycheck to the polls with ‘lesser evilism’,
the DNC has to radically change their platform leftwards to energise the base to get out the votePosts like this are meant to reduce turnout
This shit always pisses me off so much. Nobody is deciding whether to vote or not based on shitposts on an extremely niche internet forum.
yeah man, everyone should have compromised on genocide
What? This doesn’t even make sense in response to my comment
Edit: dems that didn’t vote this last election ARE how we got here. This meme is just plain dumb
Dems were pushing hard on genocide, it was ramped up significally under Biden too.
Let me introduce you to something called the American civil war, where we’re already learned the far right can’t win.
