White Americans do have class consciousness.
It is just that their class is that of white settler colonial petite bourgeoisie. The immigrated to the US to steal land from indigenous people and resist the proletarianization of the Europeans.
The reason that there won’t ever be a leftist revolution in the US is that white Americans are not part of the proletariat class and will break their solidarity with the proletariat as soon as their empire dangles status or welfare to pacify them like medicare. White Americans are more than happy to maintain the empire, they are not upset about empire, they are upset at their reducing spoils.
White Americans do have class consciousness.
They absolutely do not. And the problem is in the construction. “White” isn’t a material condition, it’s a club that certain ethnic cohorts are invited into or expelled from at the demand of the Bourgeois Class. Look at the Hispanic cohort and how they were ushered in during the Reagan/Clinton/Bush Era, then violently jettisoned under Obama/Trump/Biden/Trump.
But those shakeups are exactly what allow revolution to happen. When you have a sudden massive displacement of middle-class people and a shift in economic conditions, the social conditions for a mass movement can roll through a country like a landslide.
The reason that there won’t ever be a leftist revolution in the US is that white Americans are not part of the proletariat class
I mean, Marxists have been misplacing the site of the Next Big Revolution pretty much since the first newsletter. I don’t think it’s safe to just write off any country or region or conglomeration of people, because the material forces that produce a revolutionary consciousness are fickle and temporal. Nobody was looking at Cuba in the 1950s and saying “This place will be a Soviet satellite in another ten years, no problem”. Nobody was looking at South Africa under Apartheid and predicting a full dismantling of the colonial state inside the end of the 20th century. Nobody was thinking “the next mayor of New York will definitely be a Muslim from Astoria nominated by the DSA” a year ago.
You can’t be prescient. All you can do is be ready.
My response would be “what should we do”. You’ll figure out if they’re a contrarian to laugh at or a man of action
America is the only society I know of that boasts of open elections but has no collective curiosity about who counts the votes or how it’s done.
I’m not saying fair elections would help; but I still get triggered easily by the subject.
I would like to think future historians will be as unkind to the vote pushers, as they will be to the fascists
They should have Iranian election auditors
Not just USA, but all countries with “democracy”. Every candidates to vote came from same oligarch groups.
Democracy within socialism is good and works for the people, but democracy within capitalism is a sham.
As opposed to the Lemmy solution, “Don’t vote! That’ll do something!”
Who is telling you not to vote? What we’re telling you is: https://lemmy.ml/comment/22575324
It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.
Right, and if voting was useless, why do politicians want to take it away from demographics they hate? Why would people have to fight so hard for it?
If it really didn’t matter and it really was as you say it is, then they wouldn’t need to distract people.
If you really held onto this stance, then you can’t be mad at people who voted for Trump because it’s all smoke and mirrors anyway and he was picked with what, some shadow government?
Is organizing a revolution so easily distracted that spending like, a little part of a day casting a ballot something that’ll completely undermine everything? Is it that fragile?
Is organizing a revolution so easily distracted that spending like, a little part of a day casting a ballot something that’ll completely undermine everything?
Not at all. Again, who is saying not to vote?
Literally the other person replying next to you said it’s a useless system distracting people. You don’t have to say “don’t vote” exactly to say not to vote.
Also there’s a bunch of people on here saying not to vote so…
then they wouldn’t need to distract people.
The distraction is the voting system itself. Seems to work better on you than on most other people.
Right, so voting is a pointless distraction that… The oligarchs still need to use for some reason.
If the people in power didn’t need to get votes, we wouldn’t be having elections. They would ignore all pretense and just make the whole country into a company town.
But hey, you want conservatives to have an easier time taking power with the system as is? Go ahead and don’t vote.
Right, so voting is a pointless distraction that… The oligarchs still need to use for some reason.
We know the reasons, and we know the oligarchs will dispense with the pretense of elections when they hinder more than they help. Fascism isn’t a grassroots movement; it’s an astroturfed one funded by oligarchs. They fully unleash it when they become frustrated with bourgeois democracy.
when they vote against genocide you complains. What you want is a dictatorship where everybody should vote democrats
They often openly say they think “the masses” are too stupid to be allowed to rule a society. Liberals wear the mask of “democracy” but deep down think of themselves as benevolent plutocrats in waiting, with deep contempt for the average person in the imperial core and genocidal contempt for the average person in a Designated Enemy society.
*you complain
and why tf would I want a Democrat dictatorship? I’m literally encouraging people to vote, which is about what they want.
If there was a Democratic dictatorship you wouldn’t vote against it.
You encourage people to only vote for democrats , if they vote for a third party you claim they vote for trump meaning you support a one party
Except you’re ignoring when I’ve said that we should change voting laws so third parties are viable. If I only wanted Democrats in office I wouldn’t be supporting voter reform.
That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
I don’t know why anyone assumes that revolution will get them what they want. There are so many more ways for things to go wrong than right.
Okay, let’s look at the results to far:
Revolution: Takr away window dressing like culture, and the crushing majority of earth’s population share our class interest. Most humans want to live in a society focused on taking care of humans, and many revolutions have succeeded or even flourished despite full-spectrum seige from the capitalist bloc.
Reform: reform has been tried for a hundred fifty years and all there is to show for it is two and a half world wars, many capitalist genocides, and an entrenched neo-aristocracy of openly fascist, pedophile death cultists who have kicked off a mass extinction and are driving us towards nuclear apocalypse.
Every communist revolution that survived the 20th century is now either absolutely thriving or at least weathering extreme US seige, and the ones that weathered their seiges already have begun to thrive (see the DPRK). China is currenty the best hope for the survival of any large scale human civilization.
Meanwhile, every capitalist society where people chose reform has backslid or been backsliding into fascism. And at this point, we are out of time to keep trying gentle .methods. Capitalism is the cancer killing the only extraordinary gem of a planet where plants grow and creatures roam, and it’s in part thanks to the history of denial of how bad it is, the continual, suicidal insistence on taking half measures in the face of overwhelming warning that has allowed it to metastasize to such a horrifying degree that our only options now are the risky, painful surgery of revolution or certain death.
Nobody assumes revolution will be smooth and painless, what’s important is that it’s necessary for a better world. We have to work as hard as we can to make sure it works out as smoothly as possible.
What are some examples of it going right?
USSR, PRC, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, GDR, Yugoslavia, etc.
The USSR, Cuba, DPRK, China, Vietnam as some examples.
We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.
I’ve also talked with people who literally are against voting so your statement does not speak for everyone.
What “more immediate political concerns” are not fought better on the ground?
Why only fight on one front when you could fight on all fronts? You can vote and do other things, you know.
I have never said that you aren’t allowed to vote, more that voting is far less important than organizing. You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better, my question is which issue is voting better for?
You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better
I have never, once, at all, ever held that position, nor have I said such a thing. I have always been a proponent of organizing and voting.
Don’t you dare put those words in my mouth.
We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.
Can you please explain what these “more immediate political concerns” are that voting is more important for than organizing?
People laughed, saying a vote for Kamala was pointless, and a vote for genocide, but everyone has suffered under this atrocity of an administration. I don’t know that Kamala would have called Marxists terrorists.
The DNC are complicit in the present state repression against left-wing groups, and the genocide in Palestine has continued.
You’re absolutely not wrong.
lol what has voting achieved??
Local election voting is much more important. You can bring change to your local community with effort. Federal not so much.
Gotten people who can do better into positions of power? Kept people who can do harm out? Gotten rid of the feudal system where you only have power of you’re genetically born into it?
If voting didn’t matter, why would people fight and die for it? If voting didn’t matter, why do conservatives want you to not vote? If voting didn’t matter, why bother pretending and gave elections?
Why should you give up your agency over your government?
Or are you cool with the people who didn’t vote and kinda let Trump take over?
Gotten people who can do better into positions of power? Kept people who can do harm out?
Trump won even by popular vote this last time. You sure you want to make the claim that it’s voting in particular that gets people who can “do better” in positions of power? How can a person be so dense as to think that voting is what keeps those who do harm out of powerful positions when every president, certainly at least within living memory, has wrought unmitigated harm upon the world?
Gotten rid of the feudal system where you only have power of you’re genetically born into it?
LOL. You honestly think voting is what ended feudalism?! And you think people in power now weren’t born into it?! Behold, the intellectual heights of liberal “thought.”
If voting didn’t matter, why would people fight and die for it?
Right, 'cause no one ever fought and died for something that wasn’t true or didn’t work the way they thought. (facepalm).
Also, if voting did work as you say, why do people still have to fight and die for their basic livelihoods and the well-being of their children, let alone the myriad other reasons people to this day are fighting and dying? There are just so many ways in which these questions reveal a deep and fundamental misunderstanding about how material reality works, I don’t know where to start. Oh and wait, didn’t you just say that voting ended feudalism? I guess all that fighting and dying was the sideshow, just done for emphasis apparently.If voting didn’t matter, why do conservatives want you to not vote?
Why do you, a liberal, not want conservatives to vote? Or maybe you do, in which case you should be content with Trump who was voted in. But to answer your question about conservatives: it’s rather obviously because they’re the part of the machine that generally has less popular support for the time being. This isn’t rocket science. Funny how despite that fact, conservatives still have as much and usually more power than the liberal “progressives,” I thought this voting thing (that ended feudalism! lol) was supposed to magically solve all of that.
If voting didn’t matter, why bother pretending and gave elections?
Because people like you believe the lie that it gives them some sort of power and control over the systems that rule them. Obviously. In other words, it clearly does work miracles to placate doofuses.
Why should you give up your agency over your government?
You shouldn’t, and that’s the point. Only a fool thinks voting within this system is exercising their agency.
In response to all of your “iF vOtInG dIiNt WoRk tHeN WHY” questions, how about this: If voting did work to give ordinary people power, why would your bourgeois overlords (who literally control more absolute wealth and exercise greater relative power and control than any rulers at any point in human history) let you do it? Answer: they wouldn’t.
Or are you cool with the people who didn’t vote and kinda let Trump take over?
Ooooh, so it’s all about people who realized they were only given shit options to vote for, they’re the real problem here, not the people who… umm… voted for Trump? According to you voting has all this amazing magical power to effect the world. But the people who actually used that supposed power for their choice of Trump aren’t actually what
put Trump in the presidencylet him “take over.” No, you think the problem is the people who can correctly identify a rigged system. Trump won the election via people doing exactly what you say they should do, by voting, but when it’s not the outcome you wanted, you say the man who literally won the popular vote “took over” and proceed to blame that “takeover” on the people who chose not to use that supposedly great power to endorse genocidaires. My god liberals are such a fucking joke it still gobsmacks me somehow.Yeah, you’re making a lot of assumptions and accusations about what I believe and that’s just full on strawmaning.
You go back and forth on how voting is useless than talk about how voting got Trump into power, and honestly, you haven’t made a single good argument for not voting. All that does as far as I’m concerned is get conservatives into office, and I’m not going to do that.
Have fun on the high road, the rest of us have to deal with consequences of people like you who don’t care if people like Trump get elected, because you took the “mOrAl HiGh GrOuNd” and wouldn’t do the minimal effort to keep a Nazi out of office.
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back door being a doormat.
You go back and forth on how voting is useless than talk about how voting got Trump into power, and honestly, you haven’t made a single good argument for not voting. All that does as far as I’m concerned is get conservatives into office, and I’m not going to do that.
People have made plenty of arguments, and if all you’re focusing on domestic issues then you’re arrogant and selfish who is only concerned with having your treats threatened.
Have fun on the high road, the rest of us have to deal with consequences of people like you who don’t care if people like Trump get elected, because you took the “mOrAl HiGh GrOuNd” and wouldn’t do the minimal effort to keep a Nazi out of office.
Yeah man, the Orange Nazi is terrible, we need to have a BLUE Nazi instead! Just ignore how they both treated genocide as a bipartisan issue or where Biden ramped up the genocide significantly and Kamala promised she’d do the same.
You only dislike Trump because he’s mean about it, you’d sleep soundly if you had a president who enacted genocide, overthrew governments and killed millions of people but cared about “decorum” and “optics” as you liberals are obsessed with.
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back door being a doormat.
Says the doormat that says “WELCOME, BLUE NO MATTER WHO”
Yeah sure, both sides ism, heard this all before. No room for nuance, may as well let the people who want to shoot trans folks waltz into office unopposed.
Democrats are also throwing trans under the bus what do you mean?
And “nuance”? lmfao you are literally hyperfocusing on getting in a democrat above all else, to the point of “blue no matter who” while ignoring all points being made to you and you’re talking about nuance? LMFAO
Remember that most people on this website don’t live in your parallel universe where voting ended feudalism. They live in a world where voting didn’t end feudalism, so they won’t understand most of what you say.
Every US president is a war criminal genocider. Trump isnt special. Americans dont deserve to vote, they’re stupid
Voting can definitely bring change. Look at Zohran Mamdani in NYC. The reason he’s mayor, instead of someone else, is because enough people voted for him.
But if you’re not satisfied with voting alone then you can get more involved with politics. Join a party, or start a party. Join a trade union, or start one, if you want. Things like that.
Voting can definitely bring change. Look at Zohran Mamdani in NYC.
Zohran is a nice change of pace, but we’re way to early in his administration to know whether he’ll bring concrete social change to the city. New York has had decent mayors before. And they’ve left their footprints. But they’ve also had plenty of corrupt shitheads and racist asshats who climb into Gracie Mansion right on the heels of their betters.
But if you’re not satisfied with voting alone then you can get more involved with politics.
The fundamental problem with electoralism - and this is a critique that easily goes back to the first Obama campaign - is that election day often disperses the force that the campaign had originally assembled. What’s notable about Zohran (and a lot of the DSA affiliates) is that they come into office and maintain or expand the organizations that put them there.
Compare that to say, the Beto Campaign in Texas or the Fetterman Campaign in Pennsylvania or Polis in Colorado. Win or Lose, they disintegrate within a few weeks of the votes being counted. Often, they produce legacy candidates that act in direct opposition to the people who put them there. And that sows distrust in the movements that produced them.
So I might argue that you get involved in an organization you like first. And then you make decisions within that organization collectively. And sometimes that means supporting a candidate. Sometimes that means recognizing there’s nobody worth voting for in a given race and agreeing - collectively - that you’re not going to support anyone. But the root of the organization is in the organization, not in the voting.
Just going out and slapping buttons and saying “Okay what’s next?” is a sucker’s gambit.
LMBO! The fake leftist that went full zionist capitalist 2 seconds after he was sworn in is not the flex you think it is
I would rather have someone in charge who doesn’t do anything that someone who is actively breaking everything. How did all that protesting the Democratic candidates work out for Palestine? Both sides blah blah blah really played out well for everything from gas prices to free speech, didn’t it?
I want someone to break your fucking empire of oppression
What did the Democrats do for Palestine?
How did all that protesting the Democratic candidates work out for Palestine?
How well did Harris’ promise to continue Biden’s support of Israel despite their live-streaming genocide work out for her?
Fuck off with your dumb weaponization of the Palestinian struggle. Fuck you and your whole family, what a piece of trash
How did all that protesting the Democratic candidates work out for Palestine?
how about you stop being smug about genocide? Joe Biden ramped up the genocide in Palestine significantly and Kamala was going to do the same. Kamala also said Iran is the greatest threat, because Democrats, just like Republicans are on the same side when it comes to foreign policy; which is to kill and plunder the global south.
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Voting for genocide is not okay how hard is it to comprehend to you people?
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What the fuck are you trying to say? Genocide is being treated as a bipartisan issue in the name of voting democrats. Who gets the cookie? is it crackers for the cracKKKers? You’re vile that you completely wrote off the Palestinians if it means you get that cookie. Disgusting.
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both sides don’t give a shit about some mostly homeless people on the other side of the world.
LMFAO what a mask off. Talk about dehumanizing the pain and misery your country inflicts on the rest of the world as “some mostly homeless people”
Have you considered following your leader?
Edit: I just looked at your modlog and wow. This does explain why the Hitler particles detector was beeping hot when pointed at your posts.
(“Not giving a shit about them” when referring to Palestinians and the genocide they are going through)
Least selfish shitlib
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/> Human rights
- Every regime has deported more people than the previous regime
- All Kamala could say about trans people was that “they should follow the law”
- Every regime has increased police funding and expanded the carceral state.
- Roe v Wade was overturned under Joe Biden, who did fuck all to stop it
- Roe v Wade could have been enshrined, or whatever the fuck the word is, under Obama
- Obama was the one who expanded ICEs budget and purview
- Joe Biden was a fervent supporter of Israel
- Joe Biden sicced cops on peaceful protesters
- Joe Biden had people disappeared in black vans during the riots in 2020
What human rights?
Your argument seems to be “well they’re not throwing me in the camps” but seems like they’re well on their way to doing exactly that and you’re just strengthening them.
one side is a shit sandwich with human rights
Your daily reminder that western shitlibs don’t consider Palestinians human
That’s a lot of words for “first they came for the Palestinians, and I threw their asses under the bus because they’re not me.”
Are you even serious?
are you serious? 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler? Except you only care about domestic issues and don’t give one fuck about people outside your country. You don’t even consider them human when you talk like this.
Fucking disgusting. How about overthrowing your fucking genocidal governments?
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Both sides are genocide everywhere, you just dont notice or care when its your team doing it.
You should at least try to pretend that you consider Palestinians human
Why is this hard?
Why is this hard for you?
but one side is genocide both at home and abroad
You people are fucking pathetic btw. Palestine is going through daily bombings, dehumanization, torture and mass killings. All as part of your country’s push for genocide along with “Israel”. And they are still struggling and fighting and resisting.
And you experience ONE BILLIONTH of the pain and you decide turning genocide into a bipartisan issue is the way to go!
Selfish and monstrous.
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This shit would also be under the colour blue. Kamala Harris was mocking Trump for not deporting enough lmfao
The United States has a uniparty; all voting does is change the decal on the genocide machine. Vote if you want, I don’t really care, but don’t act like it does anything of substance.
Don’t only vote. But fucking vote.
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Most states have cheating in the primaries, both parties: unless you are lucky to live in a state that uses a voting system which prevents that.
What is the purpose of participating in a primary unless the votes are transparently counted and recounted by humans who are witnessed by representatives of the candidates?
If it is to raise awareness of the cheating, then some participation maybe good? Like, if the candidate or party/org is allowed to point at the the problematic voting system and propose changes etc as part of campaign promotion.
I would be totally behind raising awareness of proper vote counting with paper ballots; except that is what I did for years in my state, at first inside the Democratic Party ; then later when that had no traction, outside of it.
There is zero demand or push for better vote counting that I saw in the progressive wings of the Democratic Party. And equally few cares given by people in the republican side.
I spoke to activists in minority communities and there is zero momentum there, and no appetite to take that on.
In fact, it was such a sad experience for me, that it’s what inspired me to become a communist.
I’ve experienced trying to raise awareness and it only raised my awareness, not others.
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Joe Biden was pretty big on suppressing MeToo. And I dont know if you recall but the democrats are also on the Epstein list.
shut the fuck up and hold your nose and vote for the candidate that’s not pedohitler
They’re all pedohitlers. You people only care about Trump because he is mean to the domestic population and their vassal states.
Literally they are all on team genocide.
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Imperialism is bipartisan.
This did not start with fucking Trump holy fuck are you people insane. Venezuela has been under siege long before Trump stepped foot into office in his first term.
those Iranian schoolgirls
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/8/kamala-harris-says-iran-is-greatest-adversary-of-us
Amerikkkans were always doing this. History did not start with Trump. You are disgusting.
USAID cuts
A tool of imperialism got cut, oh no! No more forced austerity and regime changes hopefully!
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I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest, ever, that you only need to vote to solve problems.
I’m jealous of you then
My point was to use all tools at your disposal. Revolutions can be waged on several fronts. I’ve always hated politics as do most people I know. But 50% voter turnout is partially to blame why it sucks so bad. We have a shitty government and we are to blame. Oh well, I tried nothing and it didn’t work…
The 50% voter turnout is because of lack of faith in the ability for voting to change anything. Push these people to organize.
Plus the difficulty usa puts on people who want to vote. See Texas and constant removal of voting locations.
Or how Republicans love to remove locations from college campuses, or the lack of will by either party to extend voting to more than a single day
If everyone thinks like that, then nothing can be done. The power is when many people act together. Giving up because you feel insignificant is what keeps oligarchs in power. They want you to feel small. One vote may seem small, but if everyone votes, then we can make a difference.
We agree that the powers of the working classes are in our numbers. Where we disagree is which direction that should be pointed in. You cannot change the system from within it to something that goes fundamentally against the base. Only revolution can do so, so we must smash and replace the state with a socialist state.
You’d have to be pretty dumb to think not voting is the right move.
Like, even Trump voters are legitimately smarter than that. “Not voted” people are the very bottom of the scale.
The point isn’t that withholding votes will bring about a better world, the point is that voting within capitalism cannot bring about socialism, and that socialism is necessary. It’s not “voting is harm,” nor is it “withholding votes does good,” it’s “voting is ineffective.”
The unstated point of the meme is that we must seek means of change outside of the system put in place to prevent change. Educating, agitating, and organizing is the way forward. We can only get socialism through revolution, otherwise we will be trapped in the same cycle of decay.
Liberals when you disrespect their cute little religious superstition: “You are mentally defective for refusing to vote for Holocaust 2, I’m the opposite of a fascist btw.”
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There’s no “suddenly,” because nothing has changed. We’ve been here the whole time saying the same things.
And I seldom see people say to not vote. Mostly they say that voting does little to nothing, and that we can’t vote our way to socialism.
Blueanon shitlibs assume that the world only exists for the brief time they come out of their torper every election
Leftists have not meaningfully increased revolutionary rhetoric based on the Statesian electoral cycle. You may tune out more whenever elections aren’t around the corner, but revolutionary socialists have consistently pushed people to organize precisely because it doesn’t depend on the electoral cycle to work.
Liberals when you point out the demonic human cost of their sociopath politics: “I will now imply or outright state that you are an agent of a foreign conspiracy to undermine The Nation, or perhaps a literal unthinking machine. I’m the opposite of a fascist btw.”
“Funny how there’s suddenly all these guys wearing orange vests in the woods, gee could it be hunting season?” yeah dude, it’s almost like whatever is up in the zeitgeist gets discussed more often. Next you’ll notice how when you take an action, there is a reaction.
Also, people are pretty vocal about not voting for dems most of the time. You only notice every two years when mainstream media primes your brain to care about politics.
I know it can be incredibly frustrating. Only 50-ish to 60-ish percent turnout out most elections which is sad (https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_elections). You can also vote with your money. Be conscious about what you spend your money on or just spend less. Vote with your data (restrict access to it). Be anonymous. Delete online accounts or use fake information as much as possible. Don’t feed the machine. Vote with your actions. Protest and show support for what you believe in. Vote with your feelings. Don’t go for the rage bait and trolls. Block all that shit. Don’t let it drag you down. Free your mind. Vote with your morals. Help those in need. Be kind. And above all just survive. You can’t make a difference if you are dead.
You can theoretically vote with your money. But you would need billions of dollars to vote. That’s the only way you can vote in a way that counts in capitalism.
Not voting is dumb. Might as well drown if you don’t.
Voting doesn’t get meaningful change, because it’s designed not to be able to. That doesn’t mean our hands our tied, we can roll up our sleeves and get organized. Collective power is the working class’s strongest tool, and it’s magnified when we all work in the same direction. Revolution is possible and necessary.
I would say voting for those working against your interests is even dumber
They banned you from posting :/
ⓘ Remember to enable JPEG-XL support in your browser, even on your phone!
in other words: the only allowed political action to be committed under capitalism is voting. we have to pretend we are challenging the status quo without doing anything at all right?
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Voting is the first and easiest step, right?
In scenarios where it does not seem to save you from drowning, What is to be done?
Yeah exactly. Voting is 20 minutes out of one day once a year if you’re super active. It doesn’t hinder any other efforts and it doesn’t diminish all the other work you can and should be doing the other 364 days 23 hours and 40 minutes. Maybe you can spend that 40 minutes learning about the candidates to have a more informed vote. It’s just a stinky thing you do to try and put the lesser of two evils in.
It doesn’t hinder any other efforts
Actually, further entrenching a right-wing genocidal party of geriatric oligarchs does hinder other efforts. Further normalising and legitimising the ever-expanding fascist police-state does hinder other efforts.
It’s just a stinky thing you do to try and put the lesser of two evils in.
Or, following your logic, it would be more useful to do something like vote third party.
It also wouldn’t take much time for me to pray once or twice a day, but what’s it supposed to actually accomplish?
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Voting for genocidal bigots is dumber
I feel like if there was any sort of uprising, the far right vastly out numbers the far left. What comes out may not be what we want.
Then you haven’t been organizing.
No one is advocating for an uprising.
That’s why it’s important to educate, agitate, and organize. Far more people are open to socialism and communism than you may think.
Okay cool let’s just give up and let them kill us all then
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Democrats aren’t the left
My own dem governor is throwing people like me under the bus, the entire democratic party is adopting genocidal rhetoric and policies to embrace a non existent center. Please sincerely fuck off with this garbage blaming the left. No amount of voting for people that hate me is going to improve my conditions or stop the fascists from wanting to exterminate me. Do not fucking talk down to me.
Also I am not and never will be “a dem that didn’t vote” I am a communist and I am painfully aware of the fact there is no way to stop fascism just by voting for those who openly state their desire to preserve the capitalist system that gave rise to and is giving rise to and always will give rise to fascism and Nazism.
Alraight, this is pissing me off. Why in the fuck should I vote dem if they embrace the genocide against me and my people as soon as they have any damn pressure? They have this coming election in the bag, why are they trying to be “culturally normal”? Ill tell you why, they are not our friends, voting for them only makes you feel good because your vote is colored blue. You are a part of the problem because to you this is just a game, but to me, I aint playing. This is life and death for people like me. FU lib.
yeah man, everyone should have compromised on genocide
What? This doesn’t even make sense in response to my comment
Edit: dems that didn’t vote this last election ARE how we got here. This meme is just plain dumb
Dems were pushing hard on genocide, it was ramped up significally under Biden too.
Blaming millions of working class people in the democratic base over the vastly smaller amount of policymakers in the DNC leadership, who chose to run to the right on almost every issue in an attempt to gain the votes of the mythical ‘moderate conservatives’ is ridiculous imo.
Including choosing to support a genocide unpopular with the public as a whole(Poll from March 27, 2024: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx and the numbers were even higher when you selected for people more inclined to vote for the democrats) which would obviously suppress voter turnout among the left-leaning base who couldn’t swollow their morality to vote for a party directly arming genocidaires.The DNC being beholden to their Megadonors and PACs over the working class base, thus running on a triangulated center-right pro-genocide platform instead of on policy that would materially benefit the base and aligns with their values at the expense of the Megadonors profits Is how we actually got here
You can’t browbeat people working 40+ hours a week living paycheck to paycheck to the polls with ‘lesser evilism’,
the DNC has to radically change their platform leftwards to energise the base to get out the votePosts like this are meant to reduce turnout
This shit always pisses me off so much. Nobody is deciding whether to vote or not based on shitposts on an extremely niche internet forum.
Let me introduce you to something called the American civil war, where we’re already learned the far right can’t win.
