• davel@lemmy.ml
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      7 hours ago

      Who is telling you not to vote? What we’re telling you is: https://lemmy.ml/comment/22575324

      It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

      The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.

    • hiphopheaven@lemmy.ml
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      5 hours ago

      when they vote against anti genocide you complains. What you want is a dictatorship where everybody should vote democrats

      • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        They often openly say they think “the masses” are too stupid to be allowed to rule a society. Liberals wear the mask of “democracy” but deep down think of themselves as benevolent plutocrats in waiting, with deep contempt for the average person in the imperial core and genocidal contempt for the average person in a Designated Enemy society.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      14 hours ago

      That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.

      • TheFinn@discuss.tchncs.de
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        12 hours ago

        I don’t know why anyone assumes that revolution will get them what they want. There are so many more ways for things to go wrong than right.

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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          2 hours ago

          Okay, let’s look at the results to far:

          Revolution: Takr away window dressing like culture, and the crushing majority of earth’s population share our class interest. Most humans want to live in a society focused on taking care of humans, and many revolutions have succeeded or even flourished despite full-spectrum seige from the capitalist bloc.

          Reform: reform has been tried for a hundred fifty years and all there is to show for it is two and a half world wars, many capitalist genocides, and an entrenched neo-aristocracy of openly fascist, pedophile death cultists who have kicked off a mass extinction and are driving us towards nuclear apocalypse.

          Every communist revolution that survived the 20th century is now either absolutely thriving or at least weathering extreme US seige, and the ones that weathered their seiges already have begun to thrive (see the DPRK). China is currenty the best hope for the survival of any large scale human civilization.

          Meanwhile, every capitalist society where people chose reform has backslid or been backsliding into fascism. And at this point, we are out of time to keep trying gentle .methods. Capitalism is the cancer killing the only extraordinary gem of a planet where plants grow and creatures roam, and it’s in part thanks to the history of denial of how bad it is, the continual, suicidal insistence on taking half measures in the face of overwhelming warning that has allowed it to metastasize to such a horrifying degree that our only options now are the risky, painful surgery of revolution or certain death.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          11 hours ago

          Nobody assumes revolution will be smooth and painless, what’s important is that it’s necessary for a better world. We have to work as hard as we can to make sure it works out as smoothly as possible.

      • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.

        I’ve also talked with people who literally are against voting so your statement does not speak for everyone.

          • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
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            11 hours ago

            Why only fight on one front when you could fight on all fronts? You can vote and do other things, you know.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              11 hours ago

              I have never said that you aren’t allowed to vote, more that voting is far less important than organizing. You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better, my question is which issue is voting better for?

      • AlloyAhoy@lemmy.ml
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        13 hours ago

        People laughed, saying a vote for Kamala was pointless, and a vote for genocide, but everyone has suffered under this atrocity of an administration. I don’t know that Kamala would have called Marxists terrorists.

      • DPEWGF@sh.itjust.works
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        12 hours ago

        Local election voting is much more important. You can bring change to your local community with effort. Federal not so much.

      • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        Gotten people who can do better into positions of power? Kept people who can do harm out? Gotten rid of the feudal system where you only have power of you’re genetically born into it?

        If voting didn’t matter, why would people fight and die for it? If voting didn’t matter, why do conservatives want you to not vote? If voting didn’t matter, why bother pretending and gave elections?

        Why should you give up your agency over your government?

        Or are you cool with the people who didn’t vote and kinda let Trump take over?