what does iOS have to do with this, did you mean macOS?
iOS and Windows are not for the same use case, many people use both
That’s part of the humor to me. The iOS user chiming into a conversation they didn’t need to be a part of.
I literally don’t know the difference.
Is iOS to Android as Windows is to Mac?
iOS is Apple’s operating system for phones and tablets, MacOS is Apple’s OS for desktops and laptops.
Even more confusing that it is written in all caps like the OS of the Nintendo Wii.
Hahaha, who the fuck cares? Will Apple sue me if I write it wrong? Wait a minute…
You are correct. But with a good number of people shifting from using traditional format computers to just their smartphones, there is a kernel of truth in the statement. Perhaps you sit at a desk and stare at spreadsheets or terminals to write code. I think this causes a certain bias among the tech cognisante in believing that everyone still owns a computer-- and many people still do. But there is a very great number of people that no longer own a traditional computer and don’t even want/can’t afford one. And many of them just own an iPhone for their basic everyday needs.
What I find scary that when I spent 4 years teaching math at my local school, many couldn’t use a mouse when faced with traditional computing tasks. And I needed to spend a class period teaching them how. If it doesn’t have touch screen they didn’t want to use it.
That’s just intellectually lazy, like not wanting to use a flight joystick or a ddr mat. Touch isn’t superior in all ways, it’s just a different way. For example, with a mouse, it’s wildly physically efficient, you can just rest your arm and wrist on the table and barely move and get tons of stuff done, quickly and PRECISELY, and virtually never get tired.
What age group(s) were the kids you were teaching? Were they gen alpha?
9-year-olds through 13-year-olds. So gen whatever we’re up to these days.
You need to understand that they start with iPads as young as 5 and use those until they are about 11 years old. And by 5th or 6th grade they get a smartphone. All touchscreen all the time. By 6th grade they get a Chromebook with a touch screen and touchpad. So by the time I needed them to use mouse, they not only had never used one, but a shocking number had ever seen one in real life, there was always one or two. That ain’t their fault. They quickly learn how to use one, but that didn’t mean they liked using one. They had spent short their life just not needing one. And for no small number of them, they won’t need one or ever need one unless they have a job that requires its use. It’s like if I handed you a space mouse and was upset you didn’t already know how to use it and program it. You probably don’t spend a good portion of your days at work using 3D CAD to design tooling up to complete manufacturing lines.
We get hung up on tech in this space and are shocked and surprised when we run into people that not only don’t share our love of tech, but really don’t much care. They got what works for them and don’t want anything more.
People are so hateful towards Windows these days. I hated Windows when it was “good”, but don’t anymore because I don’t use it or actively check on what changes Microsoft make, it’s kinda surprising that the hate became so mainstream and I only learn from media on why that is the case.
For me the last golden era of Windows was around 2019 when they were making a lot of changes that helped out devs like WSL 1 and 2 and the new terminal. I guess I should’ve air quotesed golden era because even Windows 10 had ads built in. Prior to that it was 7 but that might just be rose tinted goggles.
what is this @UwU_Underground thing i keep hearing about and how does one gain access to such a privileged esteemed group
Explain
I have both lol
😒
Linux user: “I hate Windows, because it’s a proprietary OS that got there through sabotage, goodwill from its user that it got on the honeymoon week of Windows 7, and is actively getting enshittified.”
iOS user: “I hate Windows, because the computers it is for don’t come with Gorilla Glass put on the screen, often are too heavy, and the installation of applications involve complicated steps, not just using the app store.”
Android users acting like their OS is open source while they use their OEM proprietary spice of it
Exception for the rare people using an actually fully FOSS OS
iOS users are eloi
Who are the morlocks?
My parents.
following this logic - they must be Windows.
Jokes on you I am an iOS for mobile and Linux for desktop user. I’ll carry on now.
ios clearly took inspiration from windows vista for the glass design
and vista very clearly took inspiration from apple’s aqua; this whole “apple liquid glass copied windows vista” argument is very stupid.
It was all Xerox if you go back far enough.
iOS is just a more UNIX, better designed, Windows. Closed OS of American big tech. If you are choosing between those two masters, go for it. But if you don’t want to be a serf to US big tech, or want to get the most out of old hardware, come find FOSS. It’s a far healthlier relationship.
iOS is the iphone OS, which is extremely locked down
macOS (Apple’s desktop OS) is something completely different (although probably with similar internals)
On which handheld device do I run this majestic FreeBSD?
IOS users hate Windows. Linux users hate Microsoft.
I switched to Linux because I hate Windows. I also dislike Microsoft, but I would have tolerated them like I tolerate my health insurance company if they didn’t make the UX increasingly terrible.
I could have installed iOS but Linux is more reliable for gaming afaik, and iOS may start enshittifying at any moment.
On what device were you going to install iOS on?
on my laptop yk
I don’t hate Microsoft, I hate nonfree software. I happily use free software developed by Microsoft, eg VSCodium.
MS has apparently added AI to vscode… and it’s apparently a pain to, uh, extricate.
I even avoid that, because of their EEE past. Also because if I’m going to run something as heavy as VSCodium, I might as well run Jetbrains IDEs which I personally find more ergonomic. Nonfree software, sure, but I like them as a company generally.
I like the JetBrains IDEs too from a purely practical perspective, but I would still rather use FOSS VSCodium than a nonfree JetBrains IDE. Those that are FOSS are a different story.
I’m disabled. Android and iOS have terrible accessibility. And so do banks
Not surprising to see the genapos have bad take lmao
You make a lot of assumptions about me for someone who doesn’t know me.
I do. I’m your daddy.
You could call once in a while you know? Mum is worried about you
My father’s been dead for years.
He killed himself minutes after he shot my mother.
Really?
Sorry about that, just wanted to pull your legs
My bank has a website I can use to bank through, I dont even need an app.
The whole issue with banking apps must seem strange to people in some countries, and make perfect sense to people in other countries. My whole country rely on a 2FA app made by the banks. It’s in every aspect of society. Buying a bus ticket, booking a time for health care, doing taxes, applying for an apartment, signing contracts, all done with the same banking app. Only people with stallmanesque convictions manage without, with lots of effort. So far that app works on e/os/ and GrapheneOS, but not regular desktop Linux.
What do people without smartphones (like the elderly) do?
Many of the elderly don’t know how to use their phones well, but most (from my experience, not actual data) can use BankID without issue because it’s simple to use. Before BankID they used much fussier code-based authenticators, so I think most people old enough to remember that are happy for modern convenience.
But a lot of web- and app-based services are less accessible for them. Finding out the bus times, navigating health services, and paying bills are often not available through traditional low-tech means. They also have the problem of not understanding why their old phone suddenly doesn’t work anymore. (They just took down the 2G network, for instance, and BankID no longer supports Android 9 and lower, if I’m remembering the right version.)
On most public transport nowadays it’s impossible to buy a ticket while boarding, but there isn’t so much as an automated ticket machine anywhere anymore. There are very nice customer service centers at central stations, but that doesn’t help the people trying to get to the central station.
There are a lot of problems, but I don’t think BankID is causing the most egregious ones. It’s a problem if you can’t access online banking because you can’t use the software to log in, but it’s even more of a problem if you don’t have the alternative of physical banking because society is cashless. It should be made more possible to live without digital services and smartphones even though I personally enjoy them.
They have smartphones, unless they are so old that they don’t need it.
Oh, that’s a terrifying single point of failure.
I agree, and it’s run by private companies who could just shut it down or use it in evil ways. Our government is maybe making a state owned solution, but it will take time.
If you’re in Sweden you’ll be glad to know Sverige-ID is coming this December.
Aha, didn’t know that, thanks. I hope it will work with free operating systems.
2FA is the opposite of a single point of failure though. In order to impersonate you someone has to have access to your authentication device and your master password. There are no passwords to remember or get leaked/stolen, and you still have traditional identification and a physical backup in the form of codes or an authentication device.
In Sweden it’s like a minute of your time to set up a new phone, or at worst a trip to the bank if you lost your authenticator.
It also has a screen showing what information or authorization is being requested so that it’s much harder to get scammed.
I meant single point of failure as in, if the service gets interrupted you’re locked out of alot of shit you need until it comes back up.
The trade offs may be worth it, because overall that seems pretty useful.
It’s a pain in the ass if you don’t have access for whatever reason, yeah. A lot of that could be alleviated by government policies though. I don’t think it should be legal for public services to refer you to their website or app when you’re asking for help in-person. There’s also no laws against businesses refusing cash, and the banks keep removing ATMs, so it’s getting harder to manage without relying on a phone. I like e-ID, but I don’t like removing traditional human interaction. Kind of like how I love 5G cellphones and hate that they keep removing services like landlines and 2G. Low-tech is vital sometimes.
This is terrible for disabled people.
I’m having trouble imagining how this makes anything more difficult than a traditional password setup. Can you please explain?
I know there’s issues surrounding its use, but solving those issues involves changing other policies, not getting rid of e-identification. For example, allowing someone to access their medical records in person instead of demanding they use the website, a problem which would persist with a username and password.
I recently got back to my country. They have e-id. I opened an account. Got paid. My phone broke. Signing up to the app requires a computer with an e-id reader. I use it once every couple of years. It took me ages to find one. Only to realize the stupid browser extension wasn’t working with linux. At the end I had to go to the stupid city hall. I’m disabled. I would rather use my personal passphrase. What seems easy to you may not be for everybody. I hate it here. Everything is bureaucratic, security first so that the already rich banker doesn’t loose 20 euros to fraudster, nothing it adapted, everything is loud and complicated and annoying.
I think they meant that the single app by all banks can go down through backend crash, buggy/malicious app update, etc.
I guess, but I’ve gone without BankID for about month previously. (It was my own fault for procrastinating multiple things.) You don’t need it; it’s just very convenient.
I’m having difficulty envisioning a malicious update. There’s a lot of transparency and regulations.
Ah right, that makes sense. If it were like upi or pix, and had single point of failure, it would have been scary.
Banks website works.
My bank uses 2fA where if used in a browser it wants me to scan a QR code on the screen with another app on my phone… I need a very complicated set of mirrors for that to work…
Get a different bank. That is rookie shit.
On the subject of banks, some cuntey banks only provide two options: app and in-person visits. So if you live out of state and the app doesn’t work for you on your version of Android, you’re fucked
Banks in my country don’t even do in person anymore. I hate these fucks
That’s so they can pass on the savings to you, right?
Right?
Yes, bankers are notoriously generous people who just like to give stuff for free
Linux: I run the bank
z/OS: No, you don’t.
Linux users sampling self-hosting options
I literally don’t do any finance on my phone at all. This image is qualified
Most bank apps work on Sailfish OS via Android App Support. Some don’t.
Spicy!
Me being an iOS user and Linux user be like
When I can finally get a Motorola Graphene phones, iOS is gone.
Idk if it’s going to be signed then. If it is and graphene passes at least some layers of the BS Play Integrity API, then it would be perfect
See, I like iOS because it integrates with my work laptop of a MacBook Pro. I don’t need to fiddle with my phone anymore and all texts just come through my laptop.
But also, I like tinkering/programming stuff on my time. iOS just works for the most part.
But it would be nice to not be giving money to corpo tech.
But I mean, really, it’s all in what software you use. I used iOS with Linux for a while with KDE and KDE Connect along with Tailscale to connect the two with amazing results. Its not all bad. I like Android + Linux better, but iOS + Linux is definitely doable, at least it’s not iOS + Windows.
Same
I’m an iOS user too. I’d switch the day there’s a nice little Android smartphone that’s compatible with a Google-free OS (and by “little,” I mean under 5.8 inches, I don’t have giant hands).
i want ios to perish
iOS is fine. I fucking hate apple, but iOS is a baby gate that protects (metaphorically) undeveloped minds from getting into danger…
…he says while leashed to his android phone…
You know, over the last few years, I’ve gained a begrudging respect for Apple. They really care about UX, Ui, build quality, OS efficiency, battery life, and they’re even the best value proposition at several price tiers. I main Fedora and GrapheneOS at home, yes, but I enjoy macOS and iOS at work. macOS has some of those key professional applications that haven’t made it to Linux yet.
Apple is a pretty easy 2nd place in most areas, 1st for laptops specifically. Windows & ChromeOS can fight for 3rd but they’re miles below macOS and Linux.
They spy on people, they lie, they’re a littéral cult
Source: i worked there
Could you elaborate please? I’m interested to know.
I meant more if you have knowledge about something that wasn’t publicly known. This was 7 years ago and got btfo’d, hence the article about the firings you posted. Also everyone I know turns off Siri because it is useless.
They got btfo’d and then 1 months later they hired the same people through some other contractors to do the exact same thing. I knew them well.
That’s known. Siri data is kept for improving the models through human labeling. It’s not like it was hidden, just read the damn privacy policy.
If that’s your magical source as an insider, I’m sorry, but you’re bullshitting. That didn’t prove anything you said too
It’s not spying as it wasn’t their goal. It sure is shit, but you can’t compare that to the stuff Microslop and Google do
That’s not the problem. With the false positive they were hearing people during everyday interactions. I remember my colleague bothered by the fact they were hearing people having sex, talking about drugs, all the while with personal information written on screen.
Do you want some guy in Apple headquarter hears some random snippet of your life because you pronounced the word “Shiny” and the model messed up?
I disabled that voice activation feature for this exact reason, but yea, what’s shitty is that people had not been clearly informed at all
Yet over here as someone who has used macOS professionally for over a decade, I feel like I’m watching the slow deterioration of the operating system as they ignore the wants and wishes of professional users and make the whole thing more and more like a mobile OS with every update.
And at the same time it feels like the number of bugs and broken features which Apple were historically careful to control are getting worse as they prioritise moving fast over being robust.
They are still outperforming Microsoft in every user-centric metric IMO (and by a long way) but the current trajectory absolutely feels like things are getting worse, not better.
100% this.
I used macos for over a decade, and kept getting Kore and more frustrated with the ui and ux decisions apple kept making. Now I use Linux on my computers and am so.much happier. Linux has its problems, but at least I can fix most of those problems. I’m not forced to use anything.
On my phone I use graphene os, and while I hate dome of the ui/ux of the base aosp, at least it’s not sucking up all my data.
yep, hardware became better. Software became worse
I am curious to know what features you’re referring to. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m relatively new to the Mac train after all and I tend to not be as plugged into the Apple community because uh…well you know. The only thing I’ve heard is some people not liking liquid glass for a potential performance hit, but I haven’t seen any tbh. They’re also dumping Rosetta soon but I think it’s been a reasonable enough amount of time.
For me it’s mostly small but annoying issues.
Wifi refusing to connect to some access points with no indication of why. Keyboard shortcut to change desktop spaces stops working when USB monitor is connnected. That sort of annoyance that never used to happen.
And then just the general direction of travel. More AI. Getting increasingly difficult to install unverified apps. User consent still seems to be there and things are usually opt in and not out (which is great) but the nudge towards cloud is just that bit stronger all the time, and every update I’m watching for shenanigans.
If you’re new to macOS and coming from Windows then everything probably seems pretty awesome in comparison - and it is - but I don’t have the same trust as I used to.
WiFi I can’t say I have a lot of experience with, just my home and work, and those work. One is 5 GHz, one is 2.4 GHz.
The keyboard shortcut to switch spaces works for me. So does the trackpad 3 finger gesture and magic mouse swipe. I’m on the latest update but it’s never not worked. USB-c monitor.
I also hate that direction, but that’s just tech right now unfortunately. Apple seems to be resisting most of it. Apple Intelligence is half assed at best, and not forced upon you. I forget it is there. Really just so they can say they did something Ai related for investors without actually wasting too much money.
Linux is better for telemetry obviously, and there should be zero, but again Apple is far ahead of everyone else, and mostly only strengthened their commitments, with some VERY noticeable exceptions like client side scanning in the UK. Even privacy enthusiasts like Michael Bazzel recommend it for privacy and security if you are too tech illiterate or need it for work stuff. After changing settings of course.
Storage options are abysmal but luckily there are encrypted cloud options, you don’t have to use Apple’s. I’m glad I am not limited to buying Apple’s storage, I need it for my data hoard at home. For work though it doesn’t impact me, cloud is better in fact.
“Unverified” apps is complete bullshit, you got me there. Everyone else seems to be pushing it too besides Microsoft and Linux. I will be PISSED if they take it away the same way they do on iOS, and I’m hoping the App Store monopoly lawsuits go somewhere.
They moved their desktops to ARM, now they have a single architecture to maintain. It just makes sense to dumb it down so they can ship one OS for everything they make. After all, people will blindly buy it anyway.
It’s all just MacOS anyway so they just stopped shipping the x86 build it’s not really a great loss.
Lol, did you miss the ios 26 update?
MacBooks are just better. Even before apple silicon they had a distinct fit and finish advantage, but now with the M series chips they are just on a completely different level.
Hardware specs have gone up, prices have come down, competition prices have gone up, competition software has gone way down. The only way I’d recommend a laptop besides a Macbook is if you can find some nice second hand or refurbished laptops, preferably lightly used business class and/or from an auction. And even then, I’d only recommend it if they’re wanting to commit tk Linux and need a laptop specifically, or need a Windows only application. Vendors are really out here selling Windows laptops with 8 GB RAM, horrendous build quality, at damn near 1k. My work provided Windows machine is an i7 (2024 I think, maybe 2023) 32 GB RAM and sits at 16 GB RAM with my basic set of Office applications and browser tabs open. My work provided Mac has an M2 and 8 GB RAM, sits at a little under 7 GB RAM, and feels less laggy with the same programs and tabs open.
Desktops are a different story, though in specific use cases, Mac Studio/Mini/iMac are decent options too.
Have to agree. I used to write their laptops off as a joke before 2020 due to them having the worst feeling/least reliable keyboard and having overheating issues, however they addressed every issue I had with their laptops when they debuted the M1 models. This seriously made me change my opinion of Apple overall and even the new MacBook Neo is impressive for the price too.
Tips Fedora
M’lady
No but for real, that was one of the main reasons it took me so long to test Fedora. I associated fedoras (and Linux in general) with sweaty basement dwellers for many years. Not to mention “red hat” has a different connotation than it did in the 90s. Yeesh. But I’m glad I got over it, Fedora works the best for my needs and Linux isn’t nearly as hard as it’s made out to be. Might try Cachy at some point though.
People still associate Linux to command line without a GUI and lack of compatibility with hardware. But, honestly, besides some issues with drivers on OpenSUSE 15 years ago, I have not had any issues with Linux ever.
For sure, it isn’t even only the corporate or specifically beginner focused distros that are like this these days either. Most distros have gotten with the program of having GUI choices for most things, easy ways to install proprietary drivers if they weren’t allowed tk bundle them already, and even their own ecosystem like an app store.
Some FOSS software does not work as a full replacement for missing professional software, but that’s about all that comes to mind as far as issues.
They really care about UX, Ui, build quality, OS efficiency, battery life
/me side-eyes macOS Tahoe
Have you ran into issues with Tahoe?
It looks like shit and is demonstrably slower than Sequoia because of all the liquid ass.
really care about … build quality
Glad for you that has changed lately. Apple’s is the only (and most expensive) hardware I’ve ever had severe problems with … twice. (In between, that clone they killed worked great for 7 years.) Not buying it.
They really care about UX, Ui
Do people really like just having rows and rows of random icons on their home screen?
Huh? You don’t have to have icons on your home screen.
You do (did?) on iOS for the longest time.
