Oh it absolutely is! And also, me getting offended every time I see someone who has had negative experience with men isn’t going to do anything to fix that.
The right way to respond to someone who has been harmed by patriarchy, is to be empathetic but not make it about yourself. You can’t argue someone out of abuse they may have suffered
When I meet someone who has negative experience with people of color who says they hate black people because of it, I call that person a racist.
It’s really easy to wax poetically about inclusivity, and the importance of fighting hatred and and prejudice as concepts in a vacuum. The true challenge to those ideals is when reality happens and people are hurt. Is equality and inclusivity just an aesthetic? Something that makes you seem magnanimous whenever you extend your grace to people you perceive have less power than you? Or is it something real, something difficult, something that can withstand being tested?
Hatred is harmful to the person doing the hating, and harmful to society. TERF’s exist as examples of how hating men can make the world worst place. They start by making excuses about how the power imbalance makes it pay to hate men, and yet because of the power imbalance the hatred seeks out the only target it can: trans women.
You are correct that you cannot argue people put of the abuse they have suffered. The challenge lies within each of us to look within ourselves and challenge our own prejudices, even the ones we might try to justify.
TERFs don’t hate men fyi. They hate trans people, specifically trans women. They actually love allying with sexist conservative men. Also consider the power involved in someone’s hatred. If a white person hates black people it results in discrimination and violence because our society is white supremacist and specifically benefits white people for upholding anti black racism. If a black person hates white people it has virtually no effect on white people because our society is white supremacist. It’s the same deal with women who hate men.
No it’s not. It’s freaking not and stop pretending one group hating the other is less harmful.
“Black hating a white” is a dude who’s giving more amno to white supremacist. And even if they aren’t, you gotta remember extremely breeds on both sides. If there’s a white dude who thinks “all blacks should die” there’s also a black dude who would look at him and think all whites should die.
There is no freaking end if you let one group hate the other damnit. That’s genuinely the most flawed reasoning most of the left holds. Everyone has anger and a reason to kill the other guy.
Society is built upon truces. Some pleasant, some unpleasant. Most are unpleasant. Everyone has to mind what they communicate to other. You have to uphold your end of the truce. If it’s unfair, renegotiate it. But whatever you do you must take the other person into consideration.
I’ll be honest, the magas of your country are a gone case, but that doesn’t mean you have to be unreasonable.
I think the part of your comment about truces speaks volumes about your mindset. Well behaved victims who keep the peace while we are raped and killed is preferable to you then us expressing our anger. Conflict is just too distressing and uncomfortable to you. You would tell the black family who’s children were lynched to just negotiate with white supremacists and that it’s wrong to feel hate in their heart. Tell the cis women who are forced to carry their rapists fetus or the trans women put into government sanctioned sexual slavery in men’s prisons that they should uphold their end of the truce. Go fuck yourself with a fistful of rusted razors you gutless sack of shit.
And that would be a gross misinterpretation of what I was trying to say.
You seriously think I meant “accepting truce” means gobble up hate crimes and rape? No, you’re purposely misinterpreting my words at this point, cause that’s absolutely not what I implied.
Think idiot, what place do you leave most of the whites if you keep bundling them up with racists and magas? Maybe for their sake atleast y’all can try to atleast not insult them by colour?
I’m not white. I am pretty much being currently attacked by current MAGA and racist groups. And I always get bundled with with every other person of my race. And I don’t want anyone else to be bundled up this way, no matter if they are white or black or hipsanic, or asian.
Saying hating whites is okay is promoting the same bad behaviours MAGA crowd operates on.
and the “truce” was just an analogy for empathy. Which I feel west as a whole has lost a long ago, that’s why people like Trump even get elected in first place. And I am proven right when I am told to fuck myself with a fistful of rusted razors instead of being given a second thought, and the kind of things you extrapolated my "idea of truce to " just shows that.
If you want my answer, yes, people who did v coding all deserve capital punishment, and those who lynched black men or raped women deserve life spent in jail and career ruined. That’s the part of the truce. By truce I never meant victims should shut up. But some sycophant would obviously think that truce means victims should shut up if their society as a whole is just devoid of empathy.
Yeah the difference is that men have elevated power in society, and very often systematically use that power to abuse women, while black people don’t, and don’t.
I agree that in the abstract, no category of person deserve hate. In the abstract, all categories of people are equally prone to the good and bad elements of human nature.
However, in the context of social interaction, you have to use empathy. I don’t think hate is ever justified but on the other hand, social safety for anyone who isn’t a straight, white, cisgender hetero normative male is not great right now.
it’s not my place to judge the experience of someone with less privilege than me. That doesn’t mean I agree with them or think it’s fine to hate. I’m just not qualified to have that conversation.
I doubt they have an exact stat. But if about 1 in 3 women experience abuse, maybe 1 in 3 men commit the abuse? I dont think it would be a 1 to 1 ratio tho. And then assume another 1 in 3 men who have enabled an abuser, that would be a majority.
The number of enablers is probably WAY higher and the number who commit abuse is a bit lower. But I could see it being at least 51% between the two.
“Bystanders” yeah that’s something to call most men. They do be standing by while their brothers, fathers, and sons rape and kill women constantly. Doing fuck all about it. Encouraging it even.
Your reply is a common reply that is used to defend the criminlization of innocent men, quite often of men that support women in the fight against the patriarchy.
The people who don’t care and are not affected by what you say are the enemy. The people who do and are are your allies.
If your conclusion is that the entire gender is this way, then yes you are.
I’ve been cheated on a bunch. Would it be fair of me to say all women are cheaters? Of course not, because my life experiences aren’t representative of the population.
Here’s the difference: Me getting angry and hating men has no material impact on men’s lives. No policy under a patriarchal system will be enacted to empower women at the expense of men. Men hating women leads to laws restricting our autonomy. Men hating women leads them to commit rape, exploitation, beatings, and murders. But sure it’s totally a “both sides” thing.
this is a good way to put it, but nobody gives a shit about misandry on lemmy.
it’s a shame nobody ever gives thought about how the patriarchy also harms men. It’s been a boot on my throat my entire life, but since I have a penis fuck me ig. In queer spaces I get to be considered “one of the good ones” as if it makes hearing rhetoric about killing all men any better.
ah well, if being a femboy is dealing with all the bullshit that happens to women, ig having no place where you feel accepted is just part and parcel. it’s nice to see people like you try to explain it though.
“nobody gives a shit about misandry on Lemmy” idk given the sheer amount of comments on this post alone I think Lemmy is full of butthurt dudes crying “misandry bad”.
If it’s any consolation I don’t consider you “one of the good ones”. Queer men still benefit from (and often uphold) the patriarchy.
I don’t hate men for their genitals. I hate men because they’re men whether they have penises, vaginas, or any other arrangement. And no, hating my oppressors does not add to anyone’s oppression.
I think hatred of all kinds is detrimental to humanity and the planet, but maybe thatsthat’s just me.
Oh it absolutely is! And also, me getting offended every time I see someone who has had negative experience with men isn’t going to do anything to fix that.
The right way to respond to someone who has been harmed by patriarchy, is to be empathetic but not make it about yourself. You can’t argue someone out of abuse they may have suffered
When I meet someone who has negative experience with people of color who says they hate black people because of it, I call that person a racist.
It’s really easy to wax poetically about inclusivity, and the importance of fighting hatred and and prejudice as concepts in a vacuum. The true challenge to those ideals is when reality happens and people are hurt. Is equality and inclusivity just an aesthetic? Something that makes you seem magnanimous whenever you extend your grace to people you perceive have less power than you? Or is it something real, something difficult, something that can withstand being tested?
Hatred is harmful to the person doing the hating, and harmful to society. TERF’s exist as examples of how hating men can make the world worst place. They start by making excuses about how the power imbalance makes it pay to hate men, and yet because of the power imbalance the hatred seeks out the only target it can: trans women.
You are correct that you cannot argue people put of the abuse they have suffered. The challenge lies within each of us to look within ourselves and challenge our own prejudices, even the ones we might try to justify.
TERFs don’t hate men fyi. They hate trans people, specifically trans women. They actually love allying with sexist conservative men. Also consider the power involved in someone’s hatred. If a white person hates black people it results in discrimination and violence because our society is white supremacist and specifically benefits white people for upholding anti black racism. If a black person hates white people it has virtually no effect on white people because our society is white supremacist. It’s the same deal with women who hate men.
No it’s not. It’s freaking not and stop pretending one group hating the other is less harmful.
“Black hating a white” is a dude who’s giving more amno to white supremacist. And even if they aren’t, you gotta remember extremely breeds on both sides. If there’s a white dude who thinks “all blacks should die” there’s also a black dude who would look at him and think all whites should die.
There is no freaking end if you let one group hate the other damnit. That’s genuinely the most flawed reasoning most of the left holds. Everyone has anger and a reason to kill the other guy.
Society is built upon truces. Some pleasant, some unpleasant. Most are unpleasant. Everyone has to mind what they communicate to other. You have to uphold your end of the truce. If it’s unfair, renegotiate it. But whatever you do you must take the other person into consideration.
I’ll be honest, the magas of your country are a gone case, but that doesn’t mean you have to be unreasonable.
I think the part of your comment about truces speaks volumes about your mindset. Well behaved victims who keep the peace while we are raped and killed is preferable to you then us expressing our anger. Conflict is just too distressing and uncomfortable to you. You would tell the black family who’s children were lynched to just negotiate with white supremacists and that it’s wrong to feel hate in their heart. Tell the cis women who are forced to carry their rapists fetus or the trans women put into government sanctioned sexual slavery in men’s prisons that they should uphold their end of the truce. Go fuck yourself with a fistful of rusted razors you gutless sack of shit.
And that would be a gross misinterpretation of what I was trying to say.
You seriously think I meant “accepting truce” means gobble up hate crimes and rape? No, you’re purposely misinterpreting my words at this point, cause that’s absolutely not what I implied.
Think idiot, what place do you leave most of the whites if you keep bundling them up with racists and magas? Maybe for their sake atleast y’all can try to atleast not insult them by colour?
I’m not white. I am pretty much being currently attacked by current MAGA and racist groups. And I always get bundled with with every other person of my race. And I don’t want anyone else to be bundled up this way, no matter if they are white or black or hipsanic, or asian.
Saying hating whites is okay is promoting the same bad behaviours MAGA crowd operates on.
and the “truce” was just an analogy for empathy. Which I feel west as a whole has lost a long ago, that’s why people like Trump even get elected in first place. And I am proven right when I am told to fuck myself with a fistful of rusted razors instead of being given a second thought, and the kind of things you extrapolated my "idea of truce to " just shows that.
If you want my answer, yes, people who did v coding all deserve capital punishment, and those who lynched black men or raped women deserve life spent in jail and career ruined. That’s the part of the truce. By truce I never meant victims should shut up. But some sycophant would obviously think that truce means victims should shut up if their society as a whole is just devoid of empathy.
Thank you for using Black Suffering™ to defend [all men]. If there is anything else Black people can do for you today, please don’t hesitate to ask!
Yeah the difference is that men have elevated power in society, and very often systematically use that power to abuse women, while black people don’t, and don’t.
“Don’t make this about yourself” is an odd response to “You shouldn’t hate any category of person” :/
I agree that in the abstract, no category of person deserve hate. In the abstract, all categories of people are equally prone to the good and bad elements of human nature.
However, in the context of social interaction, you have to use empathy. I don’t think hate is ever justified but on the other hand, social safety for anyone who isn’t a straight, white, cisgender hetero normative male is not great right now.
it’s not my place to judge the experience of someone with less privilege than me. That doesn’t mean I agree with them or think it’s fine to hate. I’m just not qualified to have that conversation.
Have you seen what men are doing lately?
There are ~4,700,000,000 men alive on the planet, so sorry I haven’t kept up with them all
That’s pretty sexist to condemn an entire gender because of the actions of a vocal minority.
Abusers plus their enablers make up a majority. It’s not all men but it’s too fucking many.
Got a source on 51%+ of the male population being abusers?
I doubt they have an exact stat. But if about 1 in 3 women experience abuse, maybe 1 in 3 men commit the abuse? I dont think it would be a 1 to 1 ratio tho. And then assume another 1 in 3 men who have enabled an abuser, that would be a majority.
The number of enablers is probably WAY higher and the number who commit abuse is a bit lower. But I could see it being at least 51% between the two.
Yeah, I think the number would be decently lower than 33% because abusers typically don’t just abuse one person.
And “enabling” really needs to be defined.
It’s generalized enough to be a big fucking problem.
Shooting bystanders does not stop the attacker.
“Bystanders” yeah that’s something to call most men. They do be standing by while their brothers, fathers, and sons rape and kill women constantly. Doing fuck all about it. Encouraging it even.
What a bullshit response to the generalized problem of toxic masculinity and rape culture, not to mention the patriarchy that enables it all.
Your reply is a common reply that is used to defend the criminlization of innocent men, quite often of men that support women in the fight against the patriarchy.
The people who don’t care and are not affected by what you say are the enemy. The people who do and are are your allies.
Stop turning against your allies.
if you think that an oppressed group hating their oppressors is a bridge too far then you are not an ally.
The flaw in that statement is that you’re saying that all men are oppressing you.
If that’s what you think, I could never be your ally because you have already villainized me.
There is nothing I can do to change your perception of me or of men, so if you want me or men to be your allies, you have to accept us as an ally.
If you choose not to do that, then I can only conclude that you are intentionally choosing to argumentatively profit from unfixable dilemmas.
I wouldn’t call it a vocal minority. The majority of men treat women like dog shit. Just at different levels.
You’re letting your anecdotal experience taint your worldview.
Me when I meet a victim of systemic oppression: you’re letting your anecdotal experience taint your worldview
If your conclusion is that the entire gender is this way, then yes you are.
I’ve been cheated on a bunch. Would it be fair of me to say all women are cheaters? Of course not, because my life experiences aren’t representative of the population.
Here’s the difference: Me getting angry and hating men has no material impact on men’s lives. No policy under a patriarchal system will be enacted to empower women at the expense of men. Men hating women leads to laws restricting our autonomy. Men hating women leads them to commit rape, exploitation, beatings, and murders. But sure it’s totally a “both sides” thing.
That still doesn’t mean that it’s the majority of men.
Sounds like you’re angry at the system, not the gender. The system is propped up by a relatively small amount of people.
It would be like saying all white people are racist because systemic racism still exists.
Actually, I would counter that your vocally hating men that you’re encountering with on social media is creating a hostile experience on social media.
Your thinking that “it’s not doing anything bad” is wrong.
But I also am aware that you are simply venting your frustrations, and that you literally do not care what my response is.
My purpose in responding is not to antagonize you. It’s simply to state that you cannot right a wrong by committing another wrong.
Your hating me for my genitals adds to the total amount of oppression in the system and alleviates none of it.
You’re completely missing the point.
No, you just think I am
this is a good way to put it, but nobody gives a shit about misandry on lemmy.
it’s a shame nobody ever gives thought about how the patriarchy also harms men. It’s been a boot on my throat my entire life, but since I have a penis fuck me ig. In queer spaces I get to be considered “one of the good ones” as if it makes hearing rhetoric about killing all men any better.
ah well, if being a femboy is dealing with all the bullshit that happens to women, ig having no place where you feel accepted is just part and parcel. it’s nice to see people like you try to explain it though.
“nobody gives a shit about misandry on Lemmy” idk given the sheer amount of comments on this post alone I think Lemmy is full of butthurt dudes crying “misandry bad”. If it’s any consolation I don’t consider you “one of the good ones”. Queer men still benefit from (and often uphold) the patriarchy.
I don’t hate men for their genitals. I hate men because they’re men whether they have penises, vaginas, or any other arrangement. And no, hating my oppressors does not add to anyone’s oppression.