- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
You must log in or # to comment.
Least it’s an improvement over no/low code. You can dig in and unfuck some ai code easily enough but god help you if your no code platform has a bug that only their support team can fix. Not to mention the vendor lock in and licensing costs that come with it.
Describing what they want in plain, human language is impossible for stakeholders.
‘I want you to make me a Facebook-killer app with agentive AI and blockchains. Why is that so hard for you code monkeys to understand?’
Even writing an RFC for a mildly complicated feature to mostly describe it takes so many words and communication with stakeholders that it can be a full time job. Imagine an entire app.
You want the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything? Ok np
Doesn’t matter if they can replace coders. If CEOs think it can, it will.
And now, it’s good enough to look like it works so the CEO can just push the problem down the road and get an instant stock inflation
And then it’ll all go to shit and proper programmers will be able to charge bank to sort it out.
I hope it works like that.
I hope all those companies go bankrupt, people hiring those CEOs lose everything, and the CEOs never manage to find another job in their lives…
But that’s a not bad second option.
The CEOs will get a short term boost to profits and stock price. Theyll get a massive bonus from it. Then in a few years when shit starts blowing up, they will retire before that happens with a nice compensation package, leaving the company, employeez, and stockholders up shits creek from his short sighted plan.
But the CEO will be just fine on his yacht, dont worry.
They’ll end up being exploited
I don’t get how an MDA would translate to “no programmers needed”. Maybe they meant “coders”?
But really, I feel like the people who use this phrase to pitch their product either don’t know how many people actually find it difficult to break down tasks into logical components, such that a computer would be able to use, or they’re lying.Software engineering is a mindset, a way of doing something while thinking forward (and I don’t mean just scalability), at least if you want it done with quality. Today you can’t vibe code but proofs of concept, prototypes that are in no way ready for production.
I don’t see current LLMs overcoming this soon. It appears that they’ve reached their limits without achieving general AI, which is what truly would obsolete programmers, and humans in general.
Yeah why is it always coders that are supposed to be replaced and not a whole slew of other jobs where a wrong colon won’t break the whole system?
Like management or C-Suits. Fuck I’d take chatgpt as a manager any day.
programmers, and humans in general
With current levels of technology, they would require humans for maintenance.
Not because they don’t have self-replication, because they can just make that if they have a proper intelligence, but because their energy costs are too high and can’t fill AI all the way.
OK, so I didn’t think enough. They might just end up making robots with expert systems, to do the maintenance work which would require not wasting resources on “intelligence”.
Well, have you seen what game engines have done to us?
When tools become more accessible, it mostly results in more garbage.
I’m guessing 4 out of 5 of your favorite games have been made with either unity or unreal. What an absolutely shit take.
LLMs often fail at the simplest tasks. Just this week I had it fail multiple times where the solution ended up being incredibly simple and yet it couldn’t figure it out. LLMs also seem to „think“ any problem can be solved with more code, thereby making the project much harder to maintain.
LLMs won’t replace programmers anytime soon but I can see sketchy companies taking programming projects by scamming their clients through selling them work generated by LLMs. I‘ve heard multiple accounts of this already happening and similar things happened with no code solutions before.
Today I removed some functions and moved some code to separate services and being the lazy guy I am, I told it to update the tests so they no longer fail. The idiot pretty much undid my changes and updated the code to something very much resembling the original version which I was refactoring. And the fucker did it twice, even with explicit instructions to not do it.
Your anecdote is not helpful without seeing the inputs, prompts and outputs. What you’re describing sounds like not using the correct model, providing good context or tools with a reasoning model that can intelligently populate context for you.
My own anecdotes:
In two years we have gone from copy/pasting 50-100 line patches out of ChatGPT, to having agent enabled IDEs help me greenfield full stack projects, or maintain existing ones.
Our product delivery has been accelerated while delivering the same quality standards verified by our internal best practices we’ve our codified with determistic checks in CI pipelines.
The power come from planning correctly. We’re in the realm of context engineering now, and learning to leverage the right models with the right tools in the right workflow.
Most novice users have the misconception that you can tell it to “bake a cake” and get the cake ypu had in your mind. The reality is that baking a cake can be broken down into a recipe with steps that can be validated. You as the human-in-the-loop can guide it to bake your vision, or design your agent in such a way that it can infer more information about the cake you desire.
I don’t place a power drill on the table and say “build a shelf,” expecting it to happen, but marketing of AI has people believing they can.
Instead, you give an intern a power drill with a step-by-step plan with all the components and on-the-job training available on demand.
If you’re already good at the SDLC, you are rewarded. Some programmers aren’t good a project management, and will find this transition difficult.
You won’t lose your job to AI, but you will lose your job to the human using AI correctly. This isn’t speculation either, we’re also seeing workforce reduction supplemented by Senior Developers leveraging AI.
I seriously doubt your quality is maintained when an LLM writes most of your code, unless a human audits every line and understands what and why it is doing it.
If you break the tasks small enough that you can do this each step, it is no longer writing a full application, it’s writing small snippets, and you’re code-pairing with it.
Great? Business is making money. We’re compliant on security, and we have no trouble maintaining what we’ll be maintaining less of in the future as the tech catches up.
As more examples in the real world
Aider has written 7% of its own code (outdated, now 70%) | aider https://aider.chat/2024/05/24/self-assembly.html
https://aider.chat/HISTORY.html
LibreChat is largely contributed to by Claude Code, it’s the current best open source ChatGPT client, and they’ve just been acquired by ClickHouse.
https://clickhouse.com/blog/clickhouse-acquires-librechat
https://github.com/danny-avila/LibreChat/commits/main/
Such suffering from the quality! So much worse than our legacy monolith!
We have human code review and our backlog has been well curated prior to AI. Strongly definitely acceptance criteria, good application architecture, unit tests with 100% coverage, are just a few ways we keep things on the rails.
I don’t see what the idea of paircoding has to do with this. Never did I claim I’m one shotting agents.
Which IDEs?
Cursor and Claude Code are currently top tier.
GitHub Copilot is catching up, and at a $20/mo price point, it is one of the best ways to get started. Microsoft is slow rolling some of the delivery of features, because they can just steal the ideas from other projects that do it first. VScode also has extensions worth looking at: Cline and RooCode
Claude Code is better than just using Claude in cursor or copilot. Claude Code has next level magic that dispells some of the myths being propagated here about “ai bad at thing” because of the strong default prompts and validation they have built into it. You can say dumb human ignorant shit, and it will implicitly do a better job than others tools you give the same commands to.
To REALLY utilize claude code YOU MUST configure mcp tools… context7 is a critical one that avoids one of those footguns, “the model was trained on older versions of these libraries.”
Cursor hosts models with their own secret sauce that improves their behavior. They hardforked VSCode to make a deeper integrated experience.
Avoid antigravity (google) and Kiro (Amazon). They don’t offer enough value over the others right now.
If you already have an openai account, codex is worth trying, it’s like Claude Code, but not as good.
JetBrains… not worth it for me.
Aider is an honorable mention.
Codex is not bad. I use it for personal projects and Claude at work, so I can directly compare and Codex seems better to me.
Thanks!
Sure thing, crazy how anti AI lemmy users are!
One of the rare comments here that is not acid spewing rage against AI. I too went from “copying a few lines to save some time” and having to recheck everything to several hundred lines working out of the box.
deleted by creator
I get it. I was a huge skeptic 2 years ago, and I think that’s part of the reason my company asked me to join our emerging AI team as an Individual Contributor. I didn’t understand why I’d want a shitty junior dev doing a bad job… but the tools, the methodology, the gains… they all started to get better.
I’m now leading that team, and we’re not only doing accelerated development, we’re building products with AI that have received positive feedback from our internal customers, with a launch of our first external AI product going live in Q1.
Early 80s: High level structured languages (Hello COBOL!)
Late 80s: 4th generation languages
At least before that people just assumed everybody that interacted with a computer was a programmer, so managers didn’t have a compulsion when hearing the name and decided to fire all programmers.
I barely use AI for work but I gotta say that it’s the first time I can get some very specific tasks done faster.
I currently make it write code generators, I fix the up and after that I have something better at making boilerplate than these LLMs. Today I had to throw up a bunch of CRUD for a small webapp and it saved me around 1-2 hours.
That’s a great methodology for a new adopter.
Curious if you read about it, or did it out of mistrust for the AI?
help me. I am stuck working in SDET and my job makes me do a cert every 6 months that’s “no code” and I need to transition to writing code.
I’ve been SDET since 2013, in c# and java. I am so fucking sick of selenium and getting manual testing dumped on my lap. I led a test team for a fortune 500 company as a contractor for a project. I can also program in the useless salesforce stack (apex, LWC).
I am the sole breadwinner for my household. I have no fucking idea what to do.
If you’re not already messing with mcp tools that do browser orchestration, you might want to investigate that.
I don’t want to make any assumptions about additional tooling, but this is a great one in this space https://www.agentql.com/
