People have always asked that question about tech, my friend. You just weren’t listening.
But AI is snake oil. It won’t reduce work. It’ll just fuck up things that currently work and let the billionaires get richer. Vaporware. That’s it. That’s why nobody asks about newfound free time. Cuz it’s fake.
Nah
That would require that it come with UBI, which… seems doubtful at best…
I don’t even think UBI is a solution. It’s basically a cast system with extra steps. What we need is violent nationalization of any company with more than a handful of employees. We won’t get what we need though.
Capitalism is already a caste system. UBI would just ensure the lowest rungs don’t starve or lack housing/healthcare/other essentials.
Not sure how you’re connecting “UBI → caste system,” so you’ll need to show your work on that one.
If we can fix our government so that it actually works for the people instead of the corporations, then I’d say we should nationalize every publicly-traded company, install price controls, use the revenue to fund UBI, civic infrastructure, and social assistance programs; and then balance the sheets so that each company barely breaks even without extracting any profits. That can all be done without violence.
Your “violent nationalization” sounds poorly thought out. How do you go from “violence → nationalization”? I don’t really see a logical progression from A to B.
And what about C, as in, what comes after that? Okay, you nationalized the companies. Now what, who controls it? The government? What happens if people keep electing corrupt officials? And what benefit will nationalization do if you’re against UBI anyway?
And that’s all without even touching on the vagueness of “any company with more than a handful of employees.” How do you define that? An LLC with 6 or more employees? That could include most mom&pop shops. So you just want to murder old people and take their livelihoods, entrust it to the state, and what, profit?
I mean violent both because violence would probably be needed and because it would need to be done at great speed.
Currently, there’s a clear path to go from poverty to middle class. It’s easier for some depending right now but not an impossibility. If jobs become a luxury, there won’t be a middle class.
Rapid job loss + UBI doesn’t lead to anything except rich people lording over the rest of us. Granted that’s already the case, but UBI doesn’t solve much currently. We have welfare to take care of the bottom rungs, we need to level the playing field so there isn’t much rungs about it.
No, clearly, I don’t mean mom&pop shops. It would be more apt to go with profits I guess, past a certain level, you get a medal and your company gets nationalized.
I’d say we should nationalize every publicly-traded company, install price controls, use the revenue to fund UBI, civic infrastructure, and social assistance programs; and then balance the sheets so that each company barely breaks even without extracting any profits.
That’s basically what I’m trying to say, but UBI alone is basically a bandage that hides the wound and stops a minimum of bleeding. Imo, it’s more of a trap then anything else. Something to pacify the masses once it gets bad so the rich can keep their game going.
Imagine you’re rich. You’re investing in AI, in robots. You’re not investing in people. Imagine a world without people, but machines that serve without complaining or expecting anything in return.
The rich are dangerous right now.
sounds beautiful, what’s the catch?
You’re not rich.
The catch is that you won’t be one of the few people that are still around.
but I was imagining I was rich in the other comment.
Ive been poor my whole life so I’m fairly certain it’s almost my turn to be a billionaire.
That will only happen if universal basic income is implemented. Currently, the worry is nobody will be able to afford to live
That’s not it’s purpose. It’s purpose is to generate revenue for its owner. And to bastardize human culture. Nothing more.
That’s your purpose.
It’s just a tool, another piece of technology to increase efficiency with some liability.
But if such advances aren’t leading to quality of life advances for workers, that’s a societal issue sucking all the gained efficiency away, like how software uses more and more processing to do the same things as computers get faster.
It means the system is fucked up.
That’s because we haven’t updated our system to work with AI
AI should in theory automate the mundane so we can focus on art, instead it’s being used to automate the art to avoid having to pay for it.
When AI replaces jobs, we don’t celebrate not having to do the job because we only have our essentials covered when we work. We have a system that socializes the losses and privatizes the profits.
If we have Universal Basic Income, so we all got paid when AI does labor, people would be able to enjoy their lives free of stress. Unfortunately we live in a society laugh track where socialism is seen as a negative thing, as a way of rewarding the lazy at the expense of the hard working (When really that’s what capitalism does)
Unless this perception of socialism can be changed, we will never get Universal Basic Income or Single Payer Healthcare
If AI is doing all the jobs, then those who used to do those jobs are now unemployed and broke, but at least they can spend more time with their family, outdoors, at the homeless camp.
but at least they can spend more time with their family, outdoors, at the homeless camp.
ended more wholesome than I thought.
what I thought,
but at least they can spend more time with their family, outdoors, in the mass grave after starving to death.
Its their reason for being, no?
OP sounds like an insufferable shill spouting “they are just looking for the criminals and illegals” while everyone is being lined up at gunpoint outside of the gas chambers of the concentration camp.
The thing i find most insufferable is your hyperbole.
My guy, if the AI did all the jobs, what are the people supposed to do?
I mean, it’d be amazing for a socialist society, but under capitalism it straight up sucks
Spend time with their family… like in the op
No technology has ever resulted in lighter workloads for the average person. Different, and sometimes less strenuous, but never less time consuming.
Washing machine.
Also, lighter work loads and less time consuming are different arguments - unless you mean no technology has ever resulted in neither, which is a rather bold statement.
Counterpoint: The cotton gin. It was supposed to make slavery obsolete, but actually reinvigorated the practice of slavery by making slaves able to do more work.
Then everyone should be happy for the new job creators
I mean, this read sarcastic, but it seems Lemmy disagrees.
What new job creators?
The ai over lords
They haven’t created any jobs.
Sure
Whoosh
Before washing machines, people would hand off washing to professionals. Now the expectation is that the person who can afford it must wash things themselves. More time spent on that.
Lol. Who washed the cloths?
Then it takes more hours to pay for the machine.
This is a good point, and it’s often much longer workhours. People used to have to stop when it got dark, because candles and oil lamps were too expensive, but not with electric lights. Mules refuse to work more than about six hours a day, but trucks will keep going as long as you refuel them.
Pretty sure every piece of technology past the wheel can be considered to save humans time with their tasks.
No the tasks increase to fill the saved time.
Better technology frees more time for other tasks. Whether that’s work or leisure depends on the individual. Everyone has the same 24 hours a day independent of how you use them. Most people don’t just sit and do nothing. To even suggest that things like an electric stove, washing machine, lawnmower or a bicycle aren’t saving people real time on tasks they’d have to do either way is ridiculous.
In olden times before washing machines people were expected to change into clean (washed) underclothes daily, and an apron got washed when dirty, but their main clothing went a long time between cleanings. Even longer than the clothes on the chair, like months.
Similarly, expectations of manicured pool-table lawns with the advent of lawnmowers.
Better stoves/ovens I’ll totally grant you. I have enough trouble adjusting from my old “runs hot” oven to my new “runs cold” oven, I can’t imagine trying to bake a cake in a wood or coal oven.
And the horse that preceded the bicycle took more maintenance, not less.
👍🏻
Why constantly add more tasks? There’s only finite amount of maintenance on a house or things that need to get done.
I thought we were talking about capitalism. I misread the comments.
Dish washer, laundry washer, laundry drier, lawn mower, a vehicle, there’s thousands dude.
All things that save time at home, not at work.
Do people not do laundry for work? Mow lawns? Drive? Anything you could use for personal use can also help with work… what about a restaurant? No washing machines there apparently….
Do you have any specific examples that are solely “home saving” pieces of technology? Or do other peoples jobs not exist past your desk?
The whole point is that those technologies don’t save the workers time at all, because the time saved just gets filled up with more work. The business owners are the one who benefit from the increased productivity, not the workers.
The workers don’t get more free time as a result of the technology. In many cases, they take a pay cut because the technology makes their job “easier” or “less skilled.” So they still work 8 or more hours a day, and they still make barely enough to get by on (if they even make that much), while their boss only gets richer for their efforts.
This is the entire point that seems to be going over your head.
No I get that, but both topics can happen at once.
Sorry this need to be explained that your view isn’t the only one ;)
We have all these things to use at home because they originally started at work, can’t have one without the other. But you would need to look at this objectively for that, but clearly you are biased and just want to whinge that capitalism is bad! Even though that wasn’t brought up by anyone in this chain. But bloviate of you want!
That cost labor to buy.
Which is less labor than the original task? What’s your point? I can get a lawnmower for a few hours of work and it would save me hundreds compared to whatever they used before.
Tbh scythes are pretty fun to use.
can get a lawnmower for a few hours of work
Not everyone has such a magical job.
A push mower is like $50, you can also get them used for $10 or free as well.
Is there a piece of technology that doesn’t?
Even making your own wheel would cost your time first…
not even a neo-luddite. a good old fashioned luddite
Yes in advanced economies we have weight problems because a significant amount of people sit around all day instead of toiling the field… but what has technology done for us lately!
_When you don’t actually read what the person your responding to said. _
oh feel free to fill me in instead of just being snarky
Different, and sometimes less strenuous, but never less time consuming
I can’t speak on their behalf but I do agree, what does actually improve things is labor laws because otherwise they’re just going to do more work at a higher efficiency.
So you really want to unpack that?
Labor competition prevents productivity gains from generating excess labor in capitalist systems.
Then supply and demand must follow.
Can I just cut you off at the pass and say its a myth that you can work your way out of poverty. The system isn’t set up like that.
Exactly. The system is set up so that people work for barely enough to survive. Introducing better tools doesn’t give labor more free time, it gives their bosses more money. We’ve seen this with every technology since the cotton gin now: that’s why no one imagines that AI will give people more time with their families.
Nowadays I’m self-employed but back in my previous job I was paid by the hour. I earn exactly the same amount of money independent of whether I spend the whole day cutting steel with a hacksaw or an angle grinder but from my perspective as an employee, the angle grinder sure saves me a ton of effort. Same applies to other tools, better workwear and so on. Yeah, I don’t get to go home at 12pm because the better tools were so much faster but it sure made the 8 hours I spent at the jobsite that much less unpleasant. Naturally that is even more so the case now that I’m the beneficiary of the work that got done quicker.
I honestly can’t believe how cynical some people are here. I truly don’t envy you.
Back in the day, half of jobs were literally death sentences lol. Weird to see this amalgamation of technophobia and historical honey moon syndrome.
Then then the argument isn’t about jobs and feeding that narrative is unproductive
You’re the one who asked “Why isn’t anyone saying that [great labor saving technology] will give us more free time?”
Its not my fault you havent accepted youre a wage slave yet and havent become the right amount of cynical that you can recognize dripping sarcasm when its right in front of you.
Then supply and demand must follow.
Demand for human labor lowers. So they hire fewer people and capture the savings themselves.
It’s never about spending more time with the family. It’s all about paying less for labor.
Which they already optimize for. If we all make less we only widen the gap between the oligarchs and labor. Two classes that dont ever mingle anyway.
100%. We should be using AI as the catalyst for a new union movement
We should.
I had no intention of making the claim that work could lead to wealth, and honestly don’t see how my comment would lead to it.
I think OP simply has very poor reading comprehension.
You just havent followed that path enough.
I worked my way out of poverty so although I agree with you, I think the wording needs specificity.
You cannot work your way out of poverty by working harder at a poverty job. You have to switch jobs and grow your skill set until you become a valuable enough commodity to trigger competition for you.
That just gets you out of poverty.
That world is gone.
No it isn’t. Go work a trade job like being an electrician. Start early enough and put it in a 401k and other such investments and you will retire a millionaire.
That presumes educational, physical, finances aren’t obstacles.
It is not. Don’t fall for that defeatist bullshit.
I would posit that rose-colored glasses serve the capitalist class, and that it serves the interest of labor to make realistic assessments and adjust behavior accordingly. That is a message of strategy and success.
Im saying, you can spend every day working very hard but that alone will not get you out of poverty. There are always political and social menuevrors you have to do or hit the lottery.
Yes, I am agreeing with you, and I figured that’s what you meant. I am just clarifying for anyone else reading.
No hate
Because they still need to earn money for housing, food, medicine, etc.
If we lived in a world where machine productivity was used to meet everyone’s basic needs, they would be saying that. But we don’t. So machines doing more jobs doesn’t free us from work, it just makes finding work more difficult.
If somebody invented a machine that literally doubles worker productivity, do you think a company would just let everybody work half as much?
At my company
That’s why you’re not a billionaire.
We need to upend the system where you can literally only succeed by being evil
AI is meant to automate the boring stuff so we can make art and write stories. Instead, it’s been used to make art and write stories so all we’re left with is the boring stuff
It turns out automating art and writing is a lot easier than automating robotics.
Isn’t ai art boring and ai stories insufferable?
The ruling class doesn’t care.
I know what to do with a ruling class that doesnt care
Same thing we do with a drunken sailor.
No it’s not. It’s a tool used by PEOPLE to help with those things. AI is not creating pictures for other AI to consume yet but I appreciate your enthusiasm
It’s a tool used by lazy and/or untalented people to take work from actual artists.
No it isn’t. Well it is but lazy and untalented people have been doodling for ever, actually creative and talented people are using it too. And no, I’m not going to “prove it” because whatever I post you will say it’s crap, even if it’s actually by Picasso.
Doodling isn’t lazy. You’re actively creating art whether it’s good or not. AI cannot create art, it can only copy art. If I copy Picasso, should my “art” be respected the same as Picasso’s?
I am an artist, went to school for it and everything. You wouldn’t be able to “prove it” because I actually know art. AI “art” isn’t creative, it’s just worse mimicking than a person could do.
You’re an imbecile. Shut up
You first. You lazy ass, talentless moron.
Sounds like someone hasn’t been on facebook in the last 4 years. AI posts nonsense, other AIs boost the nonsense.
You’re a tool.
I do this every day. I work a lot less and get more done.
US system is one of oligarchist and geopolitical supremacism. Under that system, there is no room for crumbs to trickle down to citizenry, and more free time, and easier survivability, would be crumbs that reduce your manufactured hatred towards your fellow man.
The principle of comparative advantage and market access to the most options is not evil. Championing labour supremacism may be a lesser evil than fascist oligarchist militarism of technology, but it’s still a distortion that harms everyone who doesn’t directly benefit from any follow through on the championing. Unions today cooperate with the oligarchy in order to make life shit for non union members, and their goal is primarily to protect membership jobs more than expanding membership.
Categorically dysfunctional corrupt politics when championing power supremacism of any group as a bandaid for oligarchist, militarist supremacism.
The only solution to achieving your headline is UBI, where whoever is profiting in society pays taxes to give people choice/freedom over their time, including pursuing richness and paying more taxes in the process. UBI is redistribution of power. Not so much wealth. https://naturalfinance.blogspot.com/2026/09/a-global-prosperity-manifesto.html
Im in
Dont moralize my freedom
